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Author Topic: RAM Questions. Amiga OSC, IIGS, Atari ST, etc  (Read 1486 times)

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Offline RowbeartoeTopic starter

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RAM Questions. Amiga OSC, IIGS, Atari ST, etc
« on: May 12, 2008, 10:20:06 AM »
Hello everyone, once again have more questions!  As some of you already know I'm an Atari fan, including the Amiga (since it's the evolution of 8-bit Ataris).  So my bias needs a little pounding from time to time.

My Question:  How does the video memory work with these computers?  The Atari ST is simple to understand- all of it's memory could be used for whatever similar to the Xbox 360 for example. An Atari 1040ST for example could use it's entire megabyte for sound digitizing, graphics, etc.

The Amiga had Fast Ram and Chip RAM.  Am I to understand that only Chip RAM could be used for sound digitizing and video?  So for example an Amiga 2000, with 8 megabytes of RAM could only use Chip RAM for sound digitizing and Video page flipping for example?  Wasn't the OSC limited 512K then latter 1,024K?

The IIGS:  The IIGS had 64K sound RAM and 256K.  Was the 256K universal?  Could it be used for Sound digitizing for example?  

PC cards:  CGA, EGA, MCGA, and VGA.  Was the video RAM on these cards all that could be used for Video or the PC use the PC RAM for video and audio.

Macintosh (not color MAC):  Was it's RAM universal for sound and graphics?

Macintosh II:  Was it like the PC for video and audio RAM?


Thanks everyeone.  Odds are if you know Amiga, you probably know about the rest of the computers during that time.
 

Offline darksun9210

Re: RAM Questions. Amiga OSC, IIGS, Atari ST, etc
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2008, 10:46:12 AM »
the simple answer is yes, only chip memory could be used for audio and graphics output. audio and video input devices with well written software could DMA into and out of fast ram, and only really need chipram as a "framebuffer" to the custom chips for audio/video out.
for example, octamed soundstudio can use fastram for sound samples, feeding buffers in chipram when required for playback.

The early A1000's had 512k chipram, but half that was lost due to needing to hold the kickstart loaded from disk.
The A500's had 512k chipram, and expanded with 512k "slow" fastram and the kickstart in rom.
The early A500's could only have 1/2Meg chipram, as they had the early revsion agnus chips that could only decode half a meg (rev3/5).
The later A500's could have their 1/2Meg "slow" ram converted to additional chip ram with a trace cut and jumper solder, as they had later agnus chips that could decode 1meg of chipram (rev 6 and up).
The A500plus had 1Mb chipram, and expanded to 2Mb chip ram as they had the 2Mb agnus.
The A600 had 1Mb chipram - expandable to 2meg for the same reason as the A500plus.
The early A2000's came with half meg chip and half meg "slow" fast. later A2000's had 1meg chipram. any further expansion of an A2000 is via 24Bit DMA'able fast ram upto 8Meg, unless an accelerator is involved...

now, as you can see, "true" fast ram is a rare beast amongst the lower end machines, so you only really find audio/video software able to use fastram in the more professional end of the software market. games and demo's for original chipset machines, and enhanced chipset machines A500/A600/A1000/A2000, cannot rely on the existance of fastram, and so only make use of chipram, as this is accessable by the custom chips directly, and processor at the custom chips discretion...

so no. something as simple and slow as a "pageflipping" animation is not limited to the amount of chipram in your system, as the CPU feeds data from fastram into the frambuffer in chipram for the custom chips to display the frame of animation. really in this case, chipram only limits your screen resolution, and colour depth, as to how bigger screen you can open in 0.5Mb/1Mb/2MB of chipram...

mucking about with multiple 24bit layered graphics in photogenics would be unreasonable if you had to keep graphics in just the 2meg of chipram available.

i hope this helps.

A500, A600, A1200x3, A2000, A3000, A4000 & a CD32.
and probably just like the rest of you, crates full of related "treasure" for the above XD
 

Offline LoadWB

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Re: RAM Questions. Amiga OSC, IIGS, Atari ST, etc
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2008, 12:46:59 PM »
The 1000 originally only had 256k ChipRAM, and had an additional RAM board called the WOM which held the Kickstart image.  There is an expansion on the front of the computer which allowed for another 256k ChipRAM for a total of 512k.
 

Offline Zac67

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Re: RAM Questions. Amiga OSC, IIGS, Atari ST, etc
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2008, 01:34:42 PM »
> Am I to understand that only Chip RAM could be used for sound digitizing and video? So for example an Amiga 2000, with 8 megabytes of RAM could only use Chip RAM for sound digitizing and Video page flipping for example? Wasn't the OSC limited 512K then latter 1,024K?

Essentially, sound and video can only be played/displayed from chip RAM. Since audio bandwidth is very low, samples can easily be swapped from fast to chip in realtime. The same can be done with video/anims, but it's much more CPU demanding.
Digitizing is not done through the chipset, so there's no limitation to where the data is stored.

> PC cards: CGA, EGA, MCGA, and VGA. Was the video RAM on these cards all that could be used for Video or the PC use the PC RAM for video and audio.

Video: yes. The same technique applies: copying video data in realtime helps circumventing the limitations.
Audio has nothing to do with VGA and is played from system memory.