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Author Topic: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc  (Read 1844 times)

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Offline trackah123Topic starter

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Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« on: February 26, 2008, 08:34:11 AM »
Hi Guys.

I have a question about the so called "NDOS" disks (Non-DOS) on Amiga. I never really understood them.

Experimenting with several programs i know it is some sort of custom File System and the Boot Sector (Sector 0 or 40) is used for booting and regonizing that filesystem? i think.

What kind of NDOS Filesystem exists on the Amiga? are these a few. Or did every game-company programmed there own customized File System?

I am almost sure during the development they created it on a standard OFS or FFS AmigaOS Filesystem.. but once they are finished they convert it somehow to this hidden customized NDOS Filesystem, probably to protect it better. I find this very interesting. I think workbench can read those disks if it knows how to regonize and control that filesystem with some sort of library or drive.

Like CrossDos for example it knows how to read FAT filesystem on workbench once you started CrossDos and mount PC0.

In the past i managed it once to convert a game back to OFS so i could read out all files in workbench.. This game was NDOS before.. and even when converting it back it still booted. I only managed to do this once.. I believe i did it with X-Copy Sector 0-40 or Viruscope 1.0 or some sort of Diskblock editor cant remember its been a while.

My intention is nothing related to copying or anything like that. Just to understand and hopefully learn a bit about those NDOS filesystems, bootsectors, trackloaders etc.

I hope anyone here can tell me a bit about it. Because i find this very interesting  :-)
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 09:32:03 AM »
The disk physical format and filesystem are separate things. OFS or FFS filesystem can live on various different physical block devices (but for amiga to read/write them, there must be a way to access the disk via exec device driver. Example of FFS on custom formats is diskspare.device).

Typically games used different physical disk format to achieve couple of things: a) copy protection b) store more data on the floppy. Using custom physical format usually also meant using custom filesystem, since the OS couldn't do the floppy access then, anyway. There are probably dozens of different custom filesystems, but less different physical formats (not all of them make sense).

The first track on the floppy always is in the standard 11-sectors-per-track MFM-format so that the OS can load the bootblock. The bootblock (2 first sectors, 1KB) itself is executed, and it typically loads some more blocks from the first track, which also include the custom track loader routines. These routines are used to load the actual game off the custom format tracks. Usually there's also 2nd set of trackroutines inside the game itself.

Here's some interesting information about standard physical floppy format and OFS/FFS:
http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html

More interesting stuff here:
http://zakalwe.fi/~shd/amiga-cracking/
 

Offline trackah123Topic starter

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2008, 11:39:19 AM »
Interesting thanks.

Do you mean btw with the first 2 sectors are for booting.

You mean cylinder 0 and cylinder 40? (There are 80 cylinder on an amiga disk)
 

Offline Jope

Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2008, 12:07:12 PM »
A sector is a part of a track (which is also sometimes called cylinder).

The boot block is on the first sectors of track 0.
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2008, 12:25:32 PM »
"Normal" Amiga DD disk has
2 sides,
80 tracks,
11 blocks (sectors) per track,
512 bytes per block.

Bootblock is the first 2 blocks (sectors) of the first track (track 0).
 

Offline trackah123Topic starter

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 12:43:26 PM »
Any idea what Track 40 does? or should i say Block 880.
 

Offline ZeBeeDee

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 01:22:16 PM »
Amiga disk structure: Here
To err is human ... to BOING divine!

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
 

Offline Piru

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 01:43:28 PM »
@trackah123
Quote
Any idea what Track 40 does? or should i say Block 880.

http://lclevy.free.fr/adflib/adf_info.html#p42
 

Offline trackah123Topic starter

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Re: Question about NDOS, Trackloaders, BootSectors etc
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2008, 03:13:12 PM »
Thanks :)

There is also the same thread i opened on eab.abime.net
Its all very interesting.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?p=398139