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Author Topic: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results  (Read 10571 times)

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Offline Castellen

Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 15, 2007, 10:24:04 AM »
The voltages mentioned all look OK.  Should be fine for U451/U452 as it's well within operating limits.

I'm too lazy to look at the manual at the moment, but from memory, U541/U452 are just buffering video output data, so nothing too critical.  They'll be running from the video supply, which is just a separate +5V supply from the rest of the logic.

As for the chip memory, just use what's listed to work correctly.
Just because you're getting a green screen labeled as "chip memory error", there are a number of other things which can cause the same problem which is not related to chip memory.  A bad CIA, for example, can produce the same thing.


Quote:
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This went a bit over my head :) Can you explain the "plated through hole tech" ? And as for "solder shorts", do you mean because the holes are too close? I've been very careful, testing with my DMM to make sure there are no shorts.
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Plated through hole (PTH) simply means that the walls of the holes drilled in the PCB for component legs to be soldered in, are plated with copper.  So instead of having just a top and bottom pad with a hole in the fibreglass, the top and bottom pad are joined together with a tube shape of copper around the outside of the hole.  The tube is chemically plated in during PCB fabrication.

They're good at creating incredibly strong, reliable and vibration proof joints for leaded components.  Connections which are conveniently compromised by using crappy dual-wipe IC sockets.
The down side to PTH is it's a lot harder to unsolder components from.

Solder shorts can sometimes be caused from a "hair" of solder bridging two pads together.  Sometimes by applying too much solder as well.  For some reason, people have the idea that using an entire roll of solder for each joint will make it more reliable or something?!  You only need enough to just fill the hole.

Luckily, the component lead pitch used in the A3000's board technology (2.54mm) is so large (far apart) it's quite hard to cause accidental shorting. You could probably still get reliable soldered joints from a blind gorilla weilding a flame thrower.

Actually, I've just been working on some boards which appear to have been soldered by such a beast, but that's another story...


Good luck with the A3000 repair.  The only thing you can easily do is measure/repair any damaged tracks/vias around the battery area, and replace any corroded sockets and ICs.

Make sure you haven't done anything silly in the process.  I've seen it before where people pull out ICs to reseat them, but end up bending pins when re-inserting them into sockets, so the legs bend up or get broken off.
 

Offline da9000Topic starter

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2007, 11:36:47 PM »
Quote

Castellen wrote:
You could probably still get reliable soldered joints from a blind gorilla weilding a flame thrower.

Actually, I've just been working on some boards which appear to have been soldered by such a beast, but that's another story...


LOL!!!!!  :roflmao:

I wanted to just update the thread about the whole "battery acid" thing. It's not acid. Zac67 is right:

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30657
Quote

Doh! You're completely right - the caustic stuff in a NiCd battery is NiOH, obviously a base and no acid. Old "zinc-carbon" batteries use ammonium chloride, which is an acid.

There's always something left to learn...



Further update on my case:
Nothing exciting. All chips seem to be fine, except my Agnus. It seems fried. I also spotted some problems with my soldering on the Chip RAM, but those are fixed. Perhaps there are more, or the problem remains elsewhere :(
 

Offline amiga92570

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2007, 12:23:44 AM »
Just brush the board with a toothbrush with a mixture baking soda and water. let stand about 15min. Then rinse with board cleaner(can be purchased in a can, non corrosive). Then let the board dry or if you prefer blow it off. That should solve the corrosion, then you can work on repairing the board. :-D
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Offline da9000Topic starter

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2007, 12:33:58 AM »
@amiga92570:

I've cleaned the board up some time ago. I had a couple of questions for your previous (top of page) suggestions:

1) I don't know if my solder is "acid core". It says "Rosin-Core, Silver-Bearing Solder". I guess that's not "acid core", is it?

2) I've tested all suspicious looking tracks and they seem ok with continuity testing. Any suggestions at which points I should be testing voltages at?

3) And how can I test the oscillators (I don't have replacements)?

4) Finally when you say "verify data, address, etc line", are you talking about the ECS chips or the Chip RAM itself?

Thanks!
 

Offline rkauer

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2007, 01:02:07 AM »
 When my A2k fried, I discovered the Agnus was bust. And an associated TTL was busted, too. I was able to locate the problem thanks to the A500/2000 service manual (look at Aminet).

 Wonder if the 3000 don't have the very same associated IC (TTL 74HCT244 OR 74ALS244), it seats very near to Agnus. Major RAM problems comes from Agnus.
Goodbye people.

I\'ll pop on from time to time, RL is acting up.
 

Offline amiga92570

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2007, 02:12:38 AM »
If you do not have one, I would suggest you at least get a logic probe. You will at least be able to check for shorts and opens. Checking data address and control lines you can verify you have a clock and that the oscillator is working. Do you have a schematic, or a logic diagram. It is almost a necessity to narrow down a fault.
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Offline amiga92570

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2007, 02:22:58 AM »
U201(74ls74), U202(Pal 390526-01), U203(Pal 390527-01) and U204(74f04) are chips for control logic for agnus.
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Offline weirdami

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2007, 02:31:15 AM »
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About photos: They seem to take a few hours to get actually available.


They gotsta get approvaled, which means someone's gotta be around to approvinate them. :-)
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Offline da9000Topic starter

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2007, 02:56:05 AM »
Quote

rkauer wrote:
 When my A2k fried, I discovered the Agnus was bust. And an associated TTL was busted, too.

 Wonder if the 3000 don't have the very same associated IC (TTL 74HCT244 OR 74ALS244), it seats very near to Agnus. Major RAM problems comes from Agnus.


Very interesting!!! I will look into this. Not sure if they have the same chips, but easy enough to check. Thanks!

Quote

amiga92570 wrote:
 If you do not have one, I would suggest you at least get a logic probe. You will at least be able to check for shorts and opens. Checking data address and control lines you can verify you have a clock and that the oscillator is working. Do you have a schematic, or a logic diagram. It is almost a necessity to narrow down a fault.


Yeah, I really want to get one, and a scope too. Too expensive, or too many models and not sure which is "better" to get because they have so many features I don't understand :(

Yes, I have the schematics, I'm just not too good at reading them... yet.

As for the chips you mentioned, I'll locate them. Do you think they could damage the Agnus, because I'm thinking of what rkauer said, and now if I get a new Agnus, I don't want her blowing a cap if those are malfunctioning.

I really wonder if they have been damaged or their traces messed up due to the leak. I guess I'll just have to start with testing them first... Now that I know these chips are related to the Agnus, I'll be checking the schematics and following their traces. Before I didn't know which traces to follow. Thanks Mr. 92570 ;)

@weirdami:
A, I didn't know. Glad I didn't put anything too explicit up there :)

 

Offline Zac67

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Re: Amiga motherboard (A3000) cleanup with Isopropyl alcohol: weird results
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2007, 07:38:00 AM »
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da9000 wrote:
According to some searching results isopropyl + sulfuric acid = propylene gas, but I doubt NiCD batteries contain sulfuric acid, as the name suggest Nickel and Cadmium.


That's right - NiCd batteries contain NiOH and Cd.