On-the-spot sacking (UK)

[motorollin]

Is it legal in England for an employer to threaten on-the-spot sacking when no prior disciplinary procedure has been followed? This has just happened to a colleague who was refusing to (unofficially) change her job role in such a way that she would be split from the rest of the team and moved to a different site, and would no longer be based on-site but would be doing only remote support. Only when our boss threatened to sack her did she comply.

Any advice gratefully received as we are considering taking this to an industrial tribunal if it is not legal.

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moto

[PMC]

No it is not legal unless the employee has committed an act of gross misconduct of such severity that such a summary dismissal is warranted.  A disciplinary hearing and investigation, subject to the employee's right of appeal and representation is standard procedure.

The only reason why her manager did this is because he/she doesn't know the rules and/or they know they can get away with it.  

They have been trying to get her to agree to change the terms and conditions of her employment by coercion, which is not only unethical but not lawful.

www.acas.gov.uk

Give these guys a call and ask for advice.  The more of you who are able to give statements the better.  Make sure you note down times of meetings and who said what.

These guys are out to make a buck at the expense of the staff who's undertakings were transferred.  Give them the kicking of their lives with my blessing.

[nadoom]

PMC seems to know what he's talking about, from what I remember from business studies GCSE u should receive 2 verbal warnings and 2 written warnings before u can be sacked (sommat like that).

Its a shame when employers think they can take liberties with their employees, it happens all the time though.

[PMC]

The issue here is whether correct procedure was followed.  If not, then the employee can claim for unfair dismissal if the due process wasn't followed.  Tribunals are coming down hard on employers who fail in this duty.

taken from ACAS website

3. The Procedure

Stage 1 – improvement note: unsatisfactory performance

If performance does not meet acceptable standards the employee will normally be given an improvement note. This will set out the performance problem, the improvement that is required, the timescale and any help that may be given. The individual will be advised that it constitutes the first stage of the formal procedure. A record of the improvement note will be kept for ... months, but will then be considered spent – subject to achievement and sustainment of satisfactory performance.

Stage 1 – first warning: misconduct

If the conduct does not meet acceptable standards the employee will normally be given a written warning. This will set out the nature of the misconduct and the change in behaviour required. The warning should also inform the employee that a final written warning may be considered if there is no sustained satisfactory improvement or change. A record of the warning should be kept, but it should be disregarded for disciplinary purposes after a specified period (eg, six months).

Stage 2: final written warning

If the offence is sufficiently serious, or there is a failure to improve during the currency of a prior warning for the same type of offence, a final written warning may be given to the employee. This will give details of the complaint, the improvement required and the timescale. It will also warn that failure to improve may lead to action under Stage 3 (dismissal or some other action short of dismissal), and will refer to the right of appeal. A copy of this written warning will be kept by the supervisor but will be disregarded for disciplinary purposes after ... months subject to achievement and sustainment of satisfactory conduct or performance.

Stage 3 – dismissal or other sanction

If there is still a failure to improve the final step in the procedure may be dismissal or some other action short of dismissal such as demotion or disciplinary suspension or transfer (as allowed in the contract of employment). Dismissal decisions can only be taken by the appropriate senior manager, and the employee will be provided, as soon as reasonably practicable, with written reasons for dismissal, the date on which the employment will terminate, and the right of appeal. The decision to dismiss will be confirmed in writing.

If some sanction short of dismissal is imposed, the employee will receive details of the complaint, will be warned that dismissal could result if there is no satisfactory improvement, and will be advised of the right of appeal. A copy of the written warning will be kept by the supervisor but will be disregarded for disciplinary purposes after ... months subject to achievement and sustainment of satisfactory conduct or performance.

Statutory discipline and dismissal procedure
If an employee faces dismissal – or certain action short of dismissal such as loss of pay or demotion – the minimum statutory procedure will be followed. This involves:

– step one: a written note to the employee setting out the allegation and the basis for it
– step two: a meeting to consider and discuss the allegation
– step three: a right of appeal including an appeal meeting.

The employee will be reminded of their right to be accompanied.

Gross misconduct

The following list provides examples of offences which are normally regarded as gross misconduct:

1 theft, fraud, deliberate falsification of records
2 fighting, assault on another person
3 deliberate damage to organisational property
4 serious incapability through alcohol or being under the influence of illegal drugs
5 serious negligence which causes unacceptable loss, damage or injury
6 serious act of insubordination
7 unauthorised entry to computer records.

If you are accused of an act of gross misconduct, you may be suspended from work on full pay, normally for no more than five working days, while the alleged offence is investigated. If, on completion of the investigation and the full disciplinary procedure, the organisation is satisfied that gross misconduct has occurred, the result will normally be summary dismissal without notice or payment in lieu of notice.

Appeals

An employee who wishes to appeal against a disciplinary decision must do so within five working days. The senior manager will hear all appeals and his/her decision is final. At the appeal any disciplinary penalty imposed will be reviewed.

Good luck

[CannonFodder]

@moto

It depends if she has worked at the company for more than 12 months IIRC (It was 24 months under the Tories!).

If not, then they can sack her for any reason they want (barring discrimination) and don't have to give a reason or notice period.

[Agafaster]

 :-(

CannonFodder wrote:
@moto

It depends if she has worked at the company for more than 12 months IIRC (It was 24 months under the Tories!).

If not, then they can sack her for any reason they want (barring discrimination) and don't have to give a reason or notice period.

that sort of thing will be written down in either a contract, or a statement of employment particulars. usually, there is a notice period of 4 weeks, or 4 weeks pay in lieu.

[CannonFodder]

Agafaster wrote:
 :-(

CannonFodder wrote:
@moto

It depends if she has worked at the company for more than 12 months IIRC (It was 24 months under the Tories!).

If not, then they can sack her for any reason they want (barring discrimination) and don't have to give a reason or notice period.

that sort of thing will be written down in either a contract, or a statement of employment particulars. usually, there is a notice period of 4 weeks, or 4 weeks pay in lieu.

Only if you have been employed for 12 months.

Anything less and they can pretty much do what they like.

[PMC]

CannonFodder wrote:

Only if you have been employed for 12 months.

Anything less and they can pretty much do what they like.

No, that's a misconception.  Remember there is transfer of undertakings going on here...  She was employed by one company which has been taken over by another.  The law recognises no break in employment.

Standard terms are set out in a contract of employment (which incidentally MUST spell out the grievence procedure).  However, they do not and cannot affect and employee's statutory rights.

An employee may claim for unfair dismissal if they have been employed less than a year - ie pregnant female staff can claim sexual discrimination if they are dismissed for any reason brought about by pregnancy, ergo is automatically sexual discrimination.

[Turambar]

PMC has it spot-on. My Mother (HR Manager) frequently gives out the same advice.

[CannonFodder]

PMC wrote:

CannonFodder wrote:

Only if you have been employed for 12 months.

Anything less and they can pretty much do what they like.

No, that's a misconception.  Remember there is transfer of undertakings going on here...  She was employed by one company which has been taken over by another.  The law recognises no break in employment.

Erm, no one suggested otherwise.

Standard terms are set out in a contract of employment (which incidentally MUST spell out the grievence procedure).  However, they do not and cannot affect and employee's statutory rights.

An employee may claim for unfair dismissal if they have been employed less than a year - ie pregnant female staff can claim sexual discrimination if they are dismissed for any reason brought about by pregnancy, ergo is automatically sexual discrimination.

Hence why I wrote:

It depends if she has worked at the company for more than 12 months IIRC (It was 24 months under the Tories!).

If not, then they can sack her for any reason they want (barring discrimination) and don't have to give a reason or notice period.

From what moto has written they are sacking her because she refuses to change jobs. If she has worked at the company(regardless of who owns it) for more than 12 months she probably has a strong case for a tribunal.  If she hasn't worked there for 12 months or more then she's most likely screwed.

@moto
Might be worth looking here

[X-ray]

@ moto

PMC has it right.
We have very tight policies about misconduct and negligence (well, it is a hospital, so you would expect it). There is no such thing as instant dismissal, even here. You can be suspended and then escorted off the premises for a period of time, but even then the management needs a good reason.
Presently we have two suspended staff members. Their conduct has been sufficiently out of line so that a dismissal cannot be ruled out...but, it has to go through the right channels.
Your friend should get some legal assistance.

[adolescent]

@X-ray

Never?  I'm sure there are always grounds for immediate dismissal.  For instance, improper use of x-ray machinery to take pretty pictures of Amiga parts.  :-D

[X-ray]

hehe

I could tell you real examples of 'improper' use of X-ray equipment, but that wouldn't be proper  ;-)

[Cymric]

X-ray wrote:
I could tell you real examples of 'improper' use of X-ray equipment, but that wouldn't be proper  ;-)

More orchiectomy-type jokes, I presume...?

[motorollin]

Thanks for all the replies about this. I did write a reply yesterday but it's not here for some reason. Maybe I closed the browser by mistake and thought I had submitted it. Anyway, it now turns out that sacking was not directly mentioned but was implied, so I don't think there would be any need (or case) for a tribunal. To be honest, we're just looking for reasons to take our employers to the cleaners as they're treating us so badly :madashell:

Thanks again

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moto