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Author Topic: ETA for Elbox Dragon?  (Read 7536 times)

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Offline humppa

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #29 from previous page: March 19, 2007, 11:10:57 PM »
@Tomas
Quote
PPC addons for the classic a1200 should not need a license from AmigaINC afaik according to the orginal licensing terms.


Debatable. Might be interesting to hear the reasons why ACK Software Controls did not come through with the Powervixxen LT (for A1200) then. Licensing or simply technical difficulties? Adam also explicitly mentioned licensing on Moobunny and that it was not easy.

Further, the AmigOS-page of Amiga.com states:

Quote
AmigaOne Partners have the right to distribute AmigaOS 4.0 into the AmigaOne desktop computer market and into Cyberstorm PPC enabled devices.  Distribution into any other market or device requires a licensing and distribution agreement with Amiga, Inc.
 

Offline derringer3

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2007, 11:16:31 PM »
@ bubba: from this aspect you say something, but this price?

Any ppc card (sharkppc if ever will be relased too)is a stone age tool compared to any "modern" pc but it offer me and probably my a1200 some speed under os4. (and 3.9) I want speed in my amiga not a speed of '060 or worse. If the only thing they offered after many years of developing is a 060 card, then why not licensing blizzard '060 and sell it?

Anyway when dragon first appeared ddr 266Mhz and ati 9200/9700 etc was about ok technology, but now day by day these parts will be the parts of some computer museum.
Amiga 500: 68030@14MHz/68882@40MHz/ 5.5MB RAM/80MB HDD/Delfina FE Sound card/Kickstart 3.1/OS 3.1

Macmini 10,1 PPC 1.58GHz, 1GB Ram, 80GB HDD 5400rpm, Ati Radeon 9200/32MB, , MorphOs 3.1

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Offline Donar

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2007, 10:36:03 AM »
Quote

If the only thing they offered after many years of developing is a 060 card, then why not licensing blizzard '060 and sell it?

You always get the same things to hear, if you ask this: Critical parts are no more available, or are available but not conform to ROHS and can not be used in new equipment and then sold in the EU. So you had to re design the whole thing....

Even if they get a 68060 for 150€ instead of 300€ the product will be 125€ more expensive to produce than say a Coldfire card...assuming all parts for the card cost the same except the processor.

Quote
Anyway when dragon first appeared ddr 266Mhz and ati 9200/9700 etc was about ok technology, but now day by day these parts will be the parts of some computer museum.

As all AMIGA Equipment is, including the AmigaOne. But you are right we can just not keep up with the computer industry in general. Even if we had PCIexpress and Radeon 1950XT we had no 3D Drivers for it. :-(

Bye
<- Amiga 1260 / CD ->
Looking for:
A1200/CF CFV4/@200,256MB,eAGA,SATA,120GB,AROS :D
 

Offline djbase

Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2007, 12:30:17 PM »
Everyone is crying for uptodate hardware but there is no software (except dnetc) who could benefit from it. If the emulation on the Dragon can give a minimum speed of 040/060 it would be a good start. You can't buy any new 040/060 cards since years. If you are happy with a 040/060 today you will also be happy with a Dragon. I am sure all others who needs more power already have a Pegasos/AOne or using WinUAE.
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2007, 12:42:58 PM »
The only way I will buy a Dragon is if it is 100% backwards compatible with 68k software and runs at least at 060 speed. Otherwise it's a downgrade.

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline amiga92570

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2007, 12:52:29 PM »
I wrote and just got a reply from elbox regarding the Dragon. They claim "the programers are working daily to polish and finish drivers". There you have it. It kind of reminds me of the one midas commercials that has a bunch monkeys attacking a transmission with hammmers. ahhah... I do have to say though, I have many elbox products and they work as advertised.  :rtfm:
Amiga92570
==========================
(1) 4000T/040 (2)3000t CS 060/233ppc Picasso IV video, (2)D-box 1200 blizzard 060/200ppc Mediator fastATA, (1)amiga 1200 Power tower, (1)amiga 1200 EZ tower with mediator,1200/030/50mhz, (3) amiga 500 with CSA Mega Midget Racer and Trump card AT, (2) amiga 600 one with M-tec 030, (3) CD32 one sx32, two sx32-pro, More accessories and parts than I want to admit to
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #35 on: March 20, 2007, 12:54:02 PM »
I hope they bring out an A4000 version. I've just sold my A1200!

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline krize

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2007, 12:54:51 PM »
Yeah, I also have alotof elbox stuff.. But the case for Dragon and shark..

So much talk, so little good information :(
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Offline Comi

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2007, 01:04:30 PM »
 They should have to update FAQ about Dragon.
 

Offline krize

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2007, 01:42:33 PM »
Yeah, its not surpirising why everyone call it a hoax when they have so much wrong information and wrong deadlines..

Give us the facts!
MacMiniG4 MOS 3.18 rulez ... For music check: Horrordelic Records - Dark Psychedelic Music Since 2011 -
 

Offline AJCopland

Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2007, 01:57:58 PM »
About the compatibility I agree but I'm still running with a 68030 so would appreciate the speedup to 040 / 060 speeds :) plus I'd imagine that people might be willing to produce native or at least optimised Coldfire versions of software if the Dragon ever gets release.

As for buying things from Elbox, well opinions around here have always been really varied about them so I was really hoping for Oli_hd's Coldfire board to get finished.

Andy

Quote

motorollin wrote:
The only way I will buy a Dragon is if it is 100% backwards compatible with 68k software and runs at least at 060 speed. Otherwise it's a downgrade.

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moto
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Offline humppa

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2007, 02:13:57 PM »
Quote
As for buying things from Elbox, well opinions around here have always been really varied about them so I was really hoping for Oli_hd's Coldfire board to get finished.


I honestly don't believe that project to ever be completed. And even _if_ the hardware is finished, there is still a big software and compatibility problem.
 

Offline AJCopland

Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2007, 08:32:31 PM »
Quote

humppa wrote:
Quote
As for buying things from Elbox, well opinions around here have always been really varied about them so I was really hoping for Oli_hd's Coldfire board to get finished.


I honestly don't believe that project to ever be completed. And even _if_ the hardware is finished, there is still a big software and compatibility problem.


details details details :-D
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Offline Karlos

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2007, 08:44:46 PM »
Quote

motorollin wrote:
The only way I will buy a Dragon is if it is 100% backwards compatible with 68k software and runs at least at 060 speed. Otherwise it's a downgrade.

--
moto


There's more to system performance than raw MIPs. One thing the Coldfire has going for it is a much faster memory interface.

Compatibility is the bigger problem. The coldfire doesn't just fail to implement some operations, it implements them differently to the 68K family. That's a headache for systems just trying to run 68K object code with the least amount of intervention.

Given that missing support includes fairly commonly used addressing modes (at least in amiga software), any kind of trap/emulate is going to be a major performance hinderance.
 
One way to solve 68K compatibility in the absence of a fast/compatible enough trap/emulate layer is probably to use a hotspot based JIT and just emulate all the 68K code all of the time. Transcription will be 1:1 for all the supported opcodes, the unsupported ones could be expanded in-line.

This might sound a bit odd (emulating the 68K) but the transcription layer itself would be pretty lightweight, a lot moreso than emulating a totally different class of CPU and therefore could be implemented pretty optimally.

int p; // A
 

Offline Lemmink

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2007, 10:06:34 PM »
Quote

I wrote and just got a reply from elbox regarding the Dragon. They claim "the programers are working daily to polish and finish drivers". There you have it.

Yeah and Amiga INC. said they are hard working on OS 5, so it just has to be released any time now.......
Not really interesting, but it`s there.
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Offline Comi

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Re: ETA for Elbox Dragon?
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2007, 11:31:18 PM »
Quote

Lemmink wrote:
"the programers are working daily to polish and finish drivers". There you have it.


11 novembar and now is 21 march ...
Drivers are polished like ice if they are finished.
Elbox! Update please!