UK Knife Amnesty

[X-ray]

It doesn't matter whether you think a knife is defensive or offensive. Both ways if the guy feels the need to carry, he won't be handing his knife in.

Also you need to go down the high street more often. Knives that don't have a use in the kitchen are easily bought at hardware stores. And they don't have to be expensive unless they are quality items.

A 'Rambo knife' isn't a popular choice to carry because it is bulky. Most of the stabbings I have seen have been with knives that can be concealed, like a switchblade or a short kitchen knife.

[Hyperspeed]

Well the Rambo style knife (Gerber?) will still be popular due to it's aggresive styling and prestige. These are the knives you see coming out of the amnesty bins, not the serated carrot choppers.

I've never seen a flick knife/switchblade sold in a shop before.

As I said, there is only one use for a Rambo knife and that is killing - nobody butters toast, cuts cheese or peels potatoes with a Rambo knife, therefore their reduction in numbers can only be a good thing.

Apparently it is perfectly legal to carry a knife if it's use to the individual's trade can be proven, like a carpenter etc. So where would a Swiss Army Knife come into this...

... there's one or two people in this world I'd like to murder with a hoof cleaner or a corkscrew!

[X-ray]

@ Hyperspeed

"..Well the Rambo style knife (Gerber?) will still be popular due to it's aggresive styling and prestige. These are the knives you see coming out of the amnesty bins, not the serated carrot choppers...."
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Exactly, that proves my point. You aren't seeing the typical knives used in stabbings because the criminals aren't handing them in.
I think you need to spend some time in an A&E department to see what sort of stab wounds we get. You seem to be applying observations you have seen in action movies to a real problem.

[Hyperspeed]

by X-ray:
Exactly, that proves my point. You aren't seeing the typical knives used in stabbings because the criminals aren't handing them in.
I think you need to spend some time in an A&E department to see what sort of stab wounds we get. You seem to be applying observations you have seen in action movies to a real problem.

I can understand someone of a forensics line being able to, but how do you differentiate between flick-knife wounds and those of a similar width kitchen knife?

Flick knives are a regular feature in amnesty bins too.

I do believe however that the law should really crack down on martial arts shops and these tacky market stalls that sell samurai swords next to pot pourri.

:-D

Maybe it would be better for criminals to be given compulsory martial arts lessons instead of a lengthy prison term for knife carrying - after all, insecurity is not a crime (it's a failure of local law enforcement).

[X-ray]

@ Hyperspeed

"...I can understand someone of a forensics line being able to, but how do you differentiate between flick-knife wounds and those of a similar width kitchen knife?..."
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Actually my expertise isn't stab wounds (but by comparison to my British and American colleagues you could say I have seen a lot). My expertise is gunshot wounds. Ironically I have seen more stab wounds than gunshot wounds (one night between 7pm and 6am we got 22 stab vcitims of which only 2 were stabbed by the same individual). That's Joburg for you.
In terms of the stab wound, it is not so much a question of determining whether the blade was a small spring-loaded one, or whether it was a fixed blade kitchen knife of the same width. For the purposes of this discussion, the distinction relates to large combat or 'Rambo' knives versus kitchen knives.

If you go onto this site, they have all the laws that pertain to the ownership and carrying of knives in the UK.

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/law.html

Note what they say about the types of knives used in crimes. They agree with me. Take note also that in SA there are very lax laws to do with carrying knives and yet the criminals still choose knives they can conceal or ditch with ease. It seems that in some ways the South African knife-carrying criminal is very similar to the British one.

"...Maybe it would be better for criminals to be given compulsory martial arts lessons instead of a lengthy prison term for knife carrying - after all, insecurity is not a crime (it's a failure of local law enforcement)..."
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You want to make the criminal more dangerous? Why? It's not a question of insecurity. That applies to the carrying of knives for defense (which in practical terms is not possible here in the UK). But if I carry a knife in SA because I feel insecure, that doesn't make me a criminal. You are mixing up defense and offense, but more importantly, you need to understand the concept of criminal intent.

[X-ray]

I just had a look through my research files and found a knife that was used to stab a guy in JHB in the shoulder. This knife is typical of the sort carried by nefarious folk. It was plunged into the victim's shoulder and then twisted so that it snapped. The assailant then dropped the handle and fled.
I X-rayed the victim and took various photographs of the procedure (under local anaesthetic) where they retrieved the other half of the blade. Those pictures are a bit graphic for this board, so I'll not post them. However here is the knife:



Not very Rambo, but you can kill someone very easily with that.

[Hyperspeed]

I don't know why you cling onto the 'Rambo' example I gave. There are plenty of other hunting knives, made by Gerber for example, that have a very aggresive and tribal design and yet fold up into something similar in size to a cigarette lighter.

I take it you are based in South Africa right? A country where white people feed black people to lions and have flame throwers fitted to their cars...

:laughing:

Where there is abject poverty I suppose cheap weapons will do, but in those circumstances so will a broken bottle. You say that of those 22 stabbings only 2 were carried out by the same person - could this be because the weapon used was a crude knife like the one above? Imagine if the snapped blade in your photograph had been a stainless steel hunting knife... would the attacker have been encouraged to lunge again, possibly attacking others?

This is why some US states allow you to own an Uzi 9mm providing it isn't capable of automatic fire. The potential for mass murder and effective killing is reduced.

So wouldn't taking say 20,000 knives of all types be a good thing in that it forces those who wish to carry to use something that is probably going to bend, snap, get stuck, rust or tear their testicles off when they tie their shoe laces?

:-D :-D :-D

[X-ray]

@ Hyperspeed

"...I don't know why you cling onto the 'Rambo' example I gave. There are plenty of other hunting knives, made by Gerber for example, that have a very aggresive and tribal design and yet fold up into something similar in size to a cigarette lighter..."
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Well if he has a knife that he thinks is very aggressive and folds up to the size of a cigarette lighter, and if he thinks that is a good knife to attack someone with, then he will. And if he carries a short kitchen knife, he can achieve the same effect. If you think the number of stabbings will decrease if they stop selling short folding knives, you are sadly mistaken.


"...Where there is abject poverty I suppose cheap weapons will do, but in those circumstances so will a broken bottle..."
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Oh, so now criminals in SA use knives like the one I posted, because of abject poverty? For your information stabbings with bottles and all manner of household tools such as screwdrivers and Stanley knives occur throughout the world, in rich and poor communities. These items are always available and there is always a criminal element to be found in any country. That's why we will always have stabbings.


"...You say that of those 22 stabbings only 2 were carried out by the same person - could this be because the weapon used was a crude knife like the one above? Imagine if the snapped blade in your photograph had been a stainless steel hunting knife... would the attacker have been encouraged to lunge again, possibly attacking others?..."
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I never said how many times each of those victims was stabbed. Many were stabbed several times. The point is that each was an isolated victim of a criminal with a knife. There have been many stabbings with kitchen knives where the victims was stabbed multiple times and the knife was left in situ on the final stab, even though the blade had not snapped.


"..This is why some US states allow you to own an Uzi 9mm providing it isn't capable of automatic fire. The potential for mass murder and effective killing is reduced..."
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That Uzi 9mm is no more lethal than a standard pistol with an extended magazine. Do you want to have a knife debate or a gun debate? If you want to have a gun debate start another thread because the legal issues and the right to carry are far removed from the subject of knives.


"...So wouldn't taking say 20,000 knives of all types be a good thing in that it forces those who wish to carry to use something that is probably going to bend, snap, get stuck, rust or tear their testicles off when they tie their shoe laces?..."
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No it won't, because at the end of the day if a guy wants to carry a knife, he will. There are many durable and extremely sharp knives to be found in the kitchen. And if he doesn't twist one of those it doesn't have to snap. But even a high quality combat knife can suffer a snapped tip if it hits a heavy bone like the femur. If he really wants to carry something that won't snap he can get a short thick slot-head screwdriver.


"...I take it you are based in South Africa right? A country where white people feed black people to lions and have flame throwers fitted to their cars..."
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I am not based in SA, but I am South African. As to the rest of your drivel, I suggest you pull your head out of your rectum and attempt to engage in an adult conversation rather than being a perpetual moron.

[Hyperspeed]

by X-ray:
I am not based in SA, but I am South African. As to the rest of your drivel, I suggest you pull your head out of your rectum and attempt to engage in an adult conversation rather than being a perpetual moron.

:-D

A perpetual moron sounds like something NASA scientists worked on and George.W.Bush was the end product.

;-)

I'm not trying to irritate you X-ray, just argue out the possibilities.

I'm sure many of us have seen the aweful stabbing scene in Saving Private Ryan and take a very dim view of knives, aggression and war in general.

Maybe the answer to getting knives off the streets is more awkward than guns but I stand by my philosophy that 'every little helps'.

I'm also a great believer that kids get hooked on weapons from an early age, why when I was a young 'un I remember going to a fishing shop and seeing all the knives, catapults, guns etc. and it didn't take long to work out a way of buying them. Childrens' toy shops are also filled with toy guns, swords etc.

Maybe this generation is beyond help but future generations might be steered away from weapons simply with controls on toys, television and the availability of Hollywood movies.

And martial arts aren't just a good way to defend yourself, they could play an important role in male self esteem, constructive time use and most importantly the burning off of testosterone (the war hormone!).

:-)