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Author Topic: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues  (Read 2802 times)

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Offline gertsyTopic starter

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New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« on: August 06, 2014, 09:18:50 AM »
Hi All.

I took a punt and got one of these: CF AztecMonster SCSI CF Adaptors http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CF-AztecMonster-CF-3-5inc-SCSI-Converter-Card-Refurbished-condition-/261553593721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce5cf1d79
in the hope that it would work on an Amiga 500 Computer 2.0 Rom with an A590 SCSI Module.  

I already have another SCSI CF Card reader working successfully on this Amiga 500 Computer with an A590 SCSI Module, but that reader is a full size SCSI Multi-card reader, the CF AztecMonster SCSI CF Adaptor is much more compact and suitable for the A590 enclosure.
I was hoping that as the card works on a Macintosh of the same era it would work on an Amiga.  And I have had some success in getting it to work.

This is a list of my success:
With a 512KB CF Card the device works fine.  Multiple partitions are not a problem. They can be formatted and used without fault.
With a 2GB CF Card or 4GB CF card I have noticed the following behaviour:
HD Toolbox can see the cards, and detect them by type, and can partition the cards fine. 1 Partition, 2 Partitions, 3 Partitions, 4 Partitions.  It works fine. As long as the Partitions are less than 2GB. As expected.

Here are the limitations:
It seems I can have only 3 usable Partitions maximum? but only then if I configure more than 3.  For example If I create 4 or 5 partitions the OS sees the volumes fine but I can only format the first 3. Not the 4th or 5th.  If I try to format the 4th partition I get a “non dos disk” error (The HD light flashes once but does not write to the drive successfully during the format initialisation, as is the case with a successful initialise). This behaviour is the same on a 2GB or 4GB CF Card and does not seem to be in relation to the partition size or starting point.  For example:
1. On the 2GB Card if I configure 2 partitions; 1= 200MB, 2 = 1.7GB, the second partition will not format.
2. On the 2GB Card If I configure 3 partitions; 1 = 200MB, 2 = 1.6GB, and 3 = 100MB, I can format the first 2 partitions fine but not the third.
3. On the 2GB Card If I configure 5 partitions; 1 = 200MB, 2 = 500MB, 3 = 500MB, 4=500MB, and 5=200MB, I can format the first 3 partitions fine but not the 4th or 5th.
4. On the 4GB Card if I configure 2 partitions; 1= 200MB, 2 = 1.6GB, the second partition will not format.
5. On the 4GB Card If I configure 3 partitions; 1 = 200MB, 2 = 1.6GB, and 3 = 500MB, I can format the first 2 partitions fine but not the third.
6. On the 4GB Card If I configure 4 partitions; 1 = 200MB, 2 = 1.6GB, and 3 = 130GB, and 4 = 400MB, I can format the first 3 partitions fine but not the 4th.
 
I am able to successfully partition and format these same CF cards on the SCSI Multi-card reader to the configurations above without issue.  If I then plug them into the CF AztecMonster the same issue occurs in that the OS can no longer recognise the additional partitions even if previously formatted successfully.  
 
As you can see this is strange behaviour but consistent regardless of the capacity or partition cyls. It seems there is some limitation that may be related to Head/Cyl configuration?  The prep software can see the partitions fine. The format software cannot initialise them on the AztecMonster. But can on the SCSI Multi-card reader.

I haven't tried a 1GB Card but I have a sneaking suspicion it will work as the 512KB did.  Without issue.

The single A4 doco advises no limitation on partitions.  It just mentions the 2GB limit on Mac OS 7.1 or 4G limit on Mac OS 7.5.

Anyone with any ideas on what might be the issue?

Be a pity if this $100 card can't operate fully successfully.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the doco does say this:  "This item converts PIO-4, Multiword mode 2, or UltraDMA Mode 2 CF Memory Card to SCSI-3(upper compatible)"  If this helps.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 09:45:25 AM by gertsy »
 

Offline gertsyTopic starter

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Re: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 11:31:11 AM »
Updated post: Actually the problem is a lot simpler now I've done some logical analysis and investigation.
For a single partition the maximum partition size is as follows: 4GB CF Card = 2041MB, 2GB CF Card = 1923MB(Full capacity)
For 2 partitions the figures are the same for both cards, when I created a 200MB first partition.  The largest size I could create a second partition and format it was 1640MB.  A total of 1840MB. This was exactly the same on a 2 GB or 4GB CF Card.  

Just to be clear, using the Mechy supplied Multi-Card reader on the same A500, A590 setup I can format the same 2GB and 4GB CF Cards to full utilisation with multiple partitions. This points to a limitation on the interface device. IMO. Quite strange.

Any Ideas of what the issue might be based on this info?

Cheers
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 03:24:23 PM by gertsy »
 

Offline Dandy

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Re: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 12:42:27 PM »
Quote from: gertsy;770429


...
Any Ideas of what the issue might be based on this info?

Cheers



Hmmm - from my own experience when I wanted to change the harddrive I seem to remember having read about the A590-SCSI, that it neither is a "real" SCSI, nor a "real" IDE interface - perhaps the limitations come from that...
All the best,

Dandy

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If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him. He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him! (Albert Einstein)
 

Offline Matt_H

Re: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 06:08:29 PM »
I have one of these adapters as well but I haven't yet tested it. Possible considerations: 590 ROM revision? Kickstart 2 rather than 3? Version of HDToolbox?
 

Offline gertsyTopic starter

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Re: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2014, 07:50:06 AM »
Quote from: Matt_H;770458
I have one of these adapters as well but I haven't yet tested it. Possible considerations: 590 ROM revision? Kickstart 2 rather than 3? Version of HDToolbox?


Would have thought the same thing but the same setup and cards work fine on the Mechy supplied SCSI card reader.  So my hope is that it's a setting the Aztec doesn't like. Otherwise it looks like 2 GB is the limit.

Booting on 3.1 diskettes via 2.0 rom and using HDtoolbox made no difference.
 

Offline Amiwest

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Re: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2014, 08:17:12 AM »
As the Amiga OS system improved so did the file system. WB3.1 disk do not have the files you need, the 3.1 ROMs have the start but only the start.
Links below will help you understand. Sorry I lost the link to partition and # file limits.

http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/filesyslimits.html

http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/4gb_faq.html

http://www.youngmonkey.ca/nose/articles/NewTekniques_9810/AmigaInMotion.html

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_30chg.lha

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31chg.lha
 

Offline gertsyTopic starter

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Re: New SCSI to CF Card Adaptor Issues
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2014, 12:36:11 PM »
Quote from: Amiwest;770532
As the Amiga OS system improved so did the file system. WB3.1 disk do not have the files you need, the 3.1 ROMs have the start but only the start.
Links below will help you understand. Sorry I lost the link to partition and # file limits.

http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/filesyslimits.html

http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/4gb_faq.html

http://www.youngmonkey.ca/nose/articles/NewTekniques_9810/AmigaInMotion.html

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_30chg.lha

http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/wb_31chg.lha


Yep, Thanks Amiwest, I have favourites to Thomas' website already.  I'm well aware of the Disk and Partition limitations of my Amiga's and respective OSs and Files systems.  
If you read my post (can't blame you for not reading the first post it's gigantic) you will see I have clearly said that the 2GB and 4GB CF Cards work fine on Mechy's Multi Card Reader PCD-60B plugged into the exact same Amiga 500 and A590.  So it's not the Amiga, OS or File System that has the problem. AFAIC.
When these CF cards are plugged into this Aztec card I get different results, I was hoping someone might have an idea about why.

As it is, a 200MB partition and a 1.6GB partition are quite usable on an A500 and I'm okay to use them if that is the limit. A 4GB of course would be better, but If I can't use it, I'd like to know why.

But thanks for your help.