ide cable ports and a tower

[Will-i-am]

(Dang fat fingers, I just wrote this all out and then hit several of the wrong keys and lost all I wrote. poo.) I am planning on using my A4000 parts machine as the basis of a new project for me to try. Yes, I am retired and a little bored. I have 5 working Amigas and this parts box. I thought I would put the A4K in a tower. Looking over what I would gain, besides the 'fun' of doing it, I figure additional drives would be the main thing. But the IDE cable only has ends for two devices. I read that the machine can take up to 4 IDE drives, but how does one attach them? I went to the local computer chop shop and their box of cables all have 2 ports for drives on them. Is there an extension for the thing, or a splitter? I have several smallish HDs and a few CD drives but how would I get two HDs and a CD drive into a towerized A4000? Lastly, can a GVT-1000 scan upconverter allow my A4000 to hook up to a multisynch monitor and use most if not all the software I have on hand? How about the TVone AVT-3340? Google me this one, Batman!

[doctorq]

As for the IDE thing, you will need an IDE splitter. You can buy them or build one yourself.

[orange]

4?, are you sure, maybe it requires some kind of buffered ide thingy?
I thought that one IDE 'channel' can control only two of them: master and slave..

[Will-i-am]

orange wrote:
4?, are you sure, maybe it requires some kind of buffered ide thingy?
I thought that one IDE 'channel' can control only two of them: master and slave..

At my age I'm not 100% sure of anything... but, for instance, my A4000T manual says it can support up to 7 devices internally. If I could locate my manual for the desktop model I'm reasonably sure that it said "up to 4 devices internally" I've been carrying that number around since I bought the thing and I am pretty sure that given the space inside the box the number is correct. Except for the part about finding how to get the cable figured out and, as mentioned above, what about the "master-slave" thing? I don't see why you couldn't have more than one slave, but I haven't seen it done. So naturally I went to the one place I knew I could ask such a question and not be laughed at. 8-) Now somebody tell me about these scan converters....

[Piru]

@Will-i-am

I went to the local computer chop shop and their box of cables all have 2 ports for drives on them.

That's the only IDE cables you'll find.

Is there an extension for the thing, or a splitter?

IDEFix. But the A4000 manual surely doesn't mention it.

@orange

4?, are you sure, maybe it requires some kind of buffered ide thingy?

Well, at least A1200 can have 4 units with IDEFix hardware + software. And no, it doesn't need to be buffered (I used selfmade IDEFix HW for years, no problems). Default config can't have more than 2 devices, that's for sure. :-)

@Will-i-am

my A4000T manual says it can support up to 7 devices internally.

That's SCSI.

I don't see why you couldn't have more than one slave, but I haven't seen it done.

Because IDE only does 2 drives per channel.

[Thomas]

There's IDEfix hardware for the A4000, too. But it's still a hack. You need the IDEfix software running in order to use the second IDE channel and it will still run at the same slow speed.

In order to get a real benefit, you should go for a real two-channel IDE controller like the FastATA4000 (= PowerflyerGold).

Best solution would be a DMA SCSI controller like on the CyberstormMK3 or PPC. You can have up to 15 drives on there and with a SCSIDE-Adapter you can also use an IDE drive. On the SCSI controller drives would run at top speed without CPU load.

Lastly, can a GVT-1000 scan upconverter allow my A4000 to hook up to a multisynch monitor and use most if not all the software I have on hand? How about the TVone AVT-3340?

Don't know what you mean by "GVT-1000". All I found with Google was about gigabit ethernet connections. This has nothing to do with video.

As it seems the AVT-3340 only has Composite and Y/C inputs, but no RGB. So you still need a TV modulator which means a huge quality loss. You should rather use a real Amiga scandoubler.

Another solution would be to connect the Amiga to an LCD TV with a Scart cable, provided that the TV has a full-featured Scart connector (e.g. supports RGB input).

Bye,
Thomas

[Will-i-am]

Well I have no idea what was the real model number of that GVT-1000 that I listed. Haven't a clue and didn't take notes. Still, I understood that the Amiga output composite and the scan doublers I was looking into allowed for composite input. I took that to mean that since they doubled the H-scan rate from 15.7 to 31 (plus or minus) I could use that to hook up a monitor. Soooo the Amiga only puts out a decent RGB signal and the only way to use anything other than the original monitor is to buy a device that is as rare as hens teeth? oh pooh. I presume then that the incredibly expensive projectors that have h-scan rates of 15.7 are also somehow useless? I'm getting pretty depressed about now. I own 3 Toasters and two supergens and can't do anything to use my tower except to unplug all the cables from the desktop model 4K and lug the old NEC 3D over to the tower and then plug the cables back in.... that sucks for a disabled guy with degenerative vertebrae. I tried a Belkin KVM switch and that was a waste of money as well. As I see it my devotion to the hardware I bought thru the years was beautiful but kinda wasted. It's like my 8 pen plotter I have for doing CADD work (which I can't do any longer thanks to the old back). It draws beautiful curves and looks better than any inkjet I could afford, but essentially it's a fossil worth pretty much nothing. sigh. Why would a scart cable hooked to an LCD TV not need any kind of additional hardware? Ah well. Thanks for the info. Back to square one.

[Thomas]

I understood that the Amiga output composite and the scan doublers I was looking into allowed for composite input

Well, "the Amiga" is too general. The A600 and A1200 have a built-in TV modulator which indeed delivers a composite video signal. But I had the impression that you are talking about the A4000 and this model only has the 23pin video connector which delivers an analogue RGB signal.

Why would a scart cable hooked to an LCD TV not need any kind of additional hardware?

Well, the cable (23pin -> Scart) is a bit of additional hardware, isn't it ? :-)

The LCD TV is a TV. A TV understands the Amiga's video signal as it is (15kHz x 60Hz for NTSC or 15kHz x 50Hz for PAL). If the TV has a Scart connector which supports RGB, then it can handle the signal unchanged. The same is true for a normal CRT TV with an RGB Scart connector (I tried it with my big 100Hz Panasonic in my living room). But I thought you wanted better quality than a TV, so I suggested the LCD one. (Although I don't know if the image quality of an LCD TV is really better than that of a CRT TV. I never saw an LCD TV in action.)

I tried a Belkin KVM switch and that was a waste of money as well.

KVM switches usually can only switch standard PC mice and keyboards. So if you use a PC mouse and a PC keyboard (and a PC monitor) and your Amiga is connected through the appropiate adapters (e.g. Lyra and Cocolino), then you can use your Amiga and your PC with the same mouse/keyboard and the switch in between. I use a KS-104 with a Logitech Cordless Desktop keyboard and a Logitech Cordless Optical mouse and am quite happy with that. Sometimes the Cocolino looses the mouse but switching to another computer and then back usually solves it.

Bye,
Thomas

[humppa]

I just posted something on Scandoublers and VGA/TV boxes on the Amigaworld forum. It could be some useful information for you (quoted below).

I am also currently evaluating the various possibilities of hooking up my A1200 to my VGA monitor.

There already have been some threads on this subject (also see amiga.org forums).

There is even a review available (Amiga to Monitor using VGA Box):

http://www.particles.org/reviews/vgabox.php

Compared to the box mentioned in the review, there are some more advanced boxes available that do higher refresh rates (up to 85hz on a CRT) and support higher output resolutions (up to 1280x1024). The latter is important if you want to use a TFT in order to use its native resolution.

Another maybe even more important issue is the input signal you use. The box in the link you posted does not exactly say which inputs it supports.
The options are usually:
HF->Composite->S-Video->Component (quality increasing from HF to Component)

The problem, as you already mention, is how to make the connection from Amiga video to these signals.
HF is out of question, just don't try! Composite is available (in colour) from A600/A1200 or using a A500. But image quality, as you can read in the review, is rather moderate.

Now it gets interesting: S-Video - this would already give a decent quality. Although there are some A520 hacks possible to derive S-Video from it, a maybe easier method is to use a Genlock to do the signal conversion from Amiga RGB to S-Video. Please note that there is also some (more pricey) convertors available:
http://www.syncblaster.com/RGB2S.html

With Component-input (some of the latest TV boxes support this input) you will certainly get the best image quality. The problem: There has to be a signal conversion from RGB to Component first, by using this (even more pricey) adaptor for example:
http://www.syncblaster.com/Syncblaster_RGB2C.html

So, is it worth the hassle? I don't know, since I did not read a single report from anybody using the better inputs with an Amiga.
A clear advantage over scandoublers is that most of these boxes will work with any CRT and TFT monitor available. An alternative could be the XRBG2 (plus) which directly takes RGB and linedoubles it for CRT/TFT output. It is mainly used by die-hard japanese console-freaks and you can find a lot info about it on the web.
http://www.tiptonium.com/videogames/reviews/other/XRGB2.htm


Some "more advanced" TV/VGA boxes:

AverTV Box9
V7 TV Box 33
Grandtec Grand Video Console 1 or 2
Grandtec Grand POP 1280S

[Will-i-am]

I believe that Grandtec company makes the something like-GVT-1000 I mentioned before. I found this fairly cheap device which gets me closer, I think:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=30782&&source=14&doy=search
If it converts to s-video and composite then all you'd need is that device that converts from s-video to vga, right? I mean it would cost close to $200 to pull it off but since I have 5 monitors sitting here looking for an Amiga to hook up to it might be worth it. The Microvitec monitors are great finds, but we're still looking at a little 14" screen... Part of the reason I wanted a PC monitor was I can get nice big clear monitors for $80 and one aspect of these converters is that I have 3 19" Intergraph monitors that the Dept. of Transportation here tossed out because they were connected to Intergraph unix Cadd workstations. I got a couple of those workstations, too. The monitors are nice but the connectors are problematic and, of course, the h-scan rate is not right for the Amiga. So maybe all is not lost yet...

[humppa]

There is nothing like a GVT-1000 from Grandtec. If you want a decent device from Grandtec then have a look at either the Grand Video Console I/II or the Grand POP 1280S. The latter has the advantage of Component-input (even better than S-Video!) and a TV-tuner.

The device from Maplin will work. An alternative would be to pick up a cheap Genlock on Ebay that supports pass-through and S-Video output.
I think you should be able to get the whole setup cheaper than for $200.

[Will-i-am]

I concede that whatever it was that I thought was a "GVT-1000" may or may not exist in this universe. 8-) Something to do with my meds, I suppose. But if I want to get my Amiga output into a PC monitor I can use the relatively inexpensive Video to PC device plugged into my Supergen? What about the Toaster? Would it be posible, if silly, to use a Toaster to convert a signal into something a Video to PC device could then get into a PC monitor? Daisy chaining cuts back on quality doesn't it?