A500 for the 21th century

[whabang]

Dan wrote:
To qoute someone: "I have a plan."

Make A500 the "My first computer" use a pc104-board(pc104+ or pci104 or whatever the pci compatible version is called) and massproduce it.
Market it in different sectors.
1. at preeschool kids.
2.at school kids
3. as a industrial solution
4. as a rugged mp3/pocketvideoplayer
5. as a rugged pda/data-entry-in-the-field device
6.as a small and simple "just plug it in"-server for print/storage-server
7. with pci-expansion as a STB
8.with pci-expansion as a hometheater-pc

Thr 1.) is the most important because if we could get the kids used to our userinterface then they would prefer that in the future. Remmember how we all started with games and then DPaint and Say on the A500. Later we started to really use the WB for example to paint, copy a floppy and listen to a MOD-file at the same time. :-)

Also the 0 to 3-year old test is superior to the testing in the industrial testing, they neither chew on the computers or puke on them:lol: nor do they use them as a hammer.

Everybody knows that "digital" and "computer" means fragile and prone to breaking, rigth?
Time to prove them wrong!
And just think about the adverts.
And making a product that doesn´t fall apart just because you look at it to hard would make a company standout from the rest in the computer industry.

Oh and it should be BLACK silver/metallic is equal to crap these days!

Lysande, Sickan, lysande! :-D

We need to move away from the thought of the computer as a big, begie box, that can only be used by nerds.
If a three year-old can use it, then it's usable by the majority of people. This is where AmigaDE/Java/Insert-your-favourite-VM-here come in pretty handy: You would like one common UI for everything, though all the components are specialised for their specific applications. Bluetooth would be excellent for connecting it all. In the end, you could use your PDA to control the stereo, the DVD, and the TV. A Bluetooth keyboard, mouse, or joystick could be used when needed. In the middle of everything, we'd have a CDTV-like device to control it all.
It wouldn't have to be connected to a monitor or so, you'd just control it via VNC.

[odin]

@whabang:
Sounds alot like that whole Digital Convergence (remember that buzzword?) thing we heard so much about a few years back. Unfortunately not a single consumer seems to have grasped that  he should have his house full of compatible/inter-dependant appliances by now :-).

[darksun9210]

thing that gets me, yeah fine get a smegging PC with a ripped off copy of XP and your mates pirate copy of photoshop and cubase or something.... what do most people use it for? games. and the odd letter.

there are no coverdisks with demo apps on like octamed or "just use" packages like dpaint that... well.. even tho kids could use it, people with some talent could do some kick a55 stuff with. no manual required.

hell a coverdisk version of protracker got me through my GCSE music (with the highest grade for the school that year), got me into learning about midi, and samples. and does anyone remember amiga basic/arexx programming tutorials in magazines that you typed in yourself? basicly you learnt stuff?

do you get that in PC gamer? does a playstation2 have that functionality? we've got a generation of l33t 5killz gamers pushing for the highest polygon fill rate.
i think a stomach on a sofa with a pair of eyes and a pair of opposable thumbs for the joypad is the current future of evolution for the human race.

maybe i'm just jaded from the IT industry and the current intake of students at the college i'm working at. i have never seen a more obnoxiously ignorant group of people in my life. (as a whole). if thats the playstation generation, then we're F*cked. :-(

for example. standing outside having a smoke with trolly load of computer equipment. bloke comes upto me asks for smoke, start talking about what he's doing there. he says hes on an I.T. course. i joke about the fact you seem to have to have brain surgery to teach here. he takes me seriously with "really?, what do they do?" i say "full frontal labotomby" he says "whats that?".
now any normal person would get the joke at the 'brain surgey' bit. its no wonder i can only get work for the measerly pittance i'm on at the moment if these people are supposed to be I.T. engineers in training, and flooding the market place with muppets.
I stopped short of telling him to stop wasting his time at college and go and work on the BMW mini production line (where most of the wasters from my school went - those that didn't go to prison, or into crime gangs, or killed).

The A500 and systems like it (atari ST/E, acorn, etc. etc.) was perfect for its time. and that time has gone i'm afraid. the market just isn't there anymore... well, it is, but its just not interested. its suckling at the teet of big corporations, and its fat and happy.

sorry rant over. :lol:

[Holley]

compared to a custom machine built by people who know better

Thats a tall order, asking for competant staff in 99.9% of computer stores, large or small ...

[Dan]

odin wrote:
@whabang:
Sounds alot like that whole Digital Convergence (remember that buzzword?) thing we heard so much about a few years back. Unfortunately not a single consumer seems to have grasped that  he should have his house full of compatible/inter-dependant appliances by now :-).

"Digital Convergence" my foot, back in the days you just brought the floppy with you because all your friends had amigas.
What the users really want is to have files from their camera/mp3-players memorycards and then just insert them into their computer and be able to save to HD, edit ,print, view or play the files.

[Dan]

whabang wrote:
Lysande, Sickan, lysande! :-D

We need to move away from the thought of the computer as a big, begie box, that can only be used by nerds.
If a three year-old can use it, then it's usable by the majority of people.

The key is to target new customers early!:lol:
And also making the thing rugged, rugged computers is expensive because of the small production runs on the other hand toys are cheap because........
And if it costs $200 and is relatively rugged you are more likely to bring your wristwatch/pda/mp3player with you, as a farmer I should know.Markets
1. at preeschool kids.
2.at school kids
4. as a rugged mp3/pocketvideoplayer
5. as a rugged pda/data-entry-in-the-field device
can use the same case for the card that would help keeping cost down.

This is where AmigaDE/Java/Insert-your-favourite-VM-here come in pretty handy: You would like one common UI for everything, though all the components are specialised for their specific applications.

We had a common UI in the olddays of C64 and A500, they key is to place the product in every home. But ofcourse Java should be available.
I´m suprised that there isn´t execute-in-place Java that would mean truly portable. Is Intent/TAO execute-in-place?
Like having a USBstick with the VMs(one for Win, one for MacOS,Linux,BSD etc) and your programs/data and when you use another computer you just start another VM.
That would be better than Linux on a stick because hardwaredrivers would be provided by the OS.

Bluetooth would be excellent for connecting it all.

Yep, in terms of hardware think top off the line current pda. Bluetooth,WLAN, USB2.0 host,1-4 serialports, geekport like Bebox, Ir, CF,SDIO, Graphics capable of 800x600 24bit video out playing mpeg2,
Sounds advanced today but in 2 years or so it will be cheap.
Also keep making the same model for several years like with A500 would reduce price.

In the end, you could use your PDA to control the stereo, the DVD, and the TV.

I dont think anybody would want this bigger rougher pda as a remote. But sure you could. It would be difficult to shrink smaller than 10x10cm with a PC104+ compatible board.http://www.pc104.org/technology/plus_info.html
Maybe by leaving out the old PC104 connector? But it would still have lots circuitry of so I dont think it cold be shrinked to smaller size

In the middle of everything, we'd have a CDTV-like device to control it all. It wouldn't have to be connected to a monitor or so, you'd just control it via VNC.

There is no need to "control it all" everypart is independent, a Bluetooth trackball/remote would be enough. But you could use the STB as a fileserver.
As for control it should be on the pda because thats where you have your schedule. Rather it should be the pda that controls the other things.
Say for example that in the morning the pda downloads the news from the home wlan. On the train to work you notice theres a tv-program that you want to see tonight, you select a reminder for it from a menu. Later you get a phonecall from someone who wants to meet you at the same time, when you put that meeting in the scheduler then the pda automatically tells the STB to record the tv-program.
The pda commands the phone via Bluetooth to send a SMS to your STB/homecomputer.

[anakirob]

The A500 was cheap(ish), played games as easy as inserting the disk, and could plug straight into a TV/stereo.

The AmigaOne seems to be an ordinary PC with motorolla instead of intel (a good thing, but it's still a PC). No custom hardware? This is one thing that makes classic amiga so 'classic'. Is WB4.0 going to be any more than LINUX-XWINDOWS with amigalike icons and bundled linux drivers?

I AM NOT GOING TO BUY A ONE OF THESE. NOT FOR >$1K!

For about $200 I can get an XBOX and for another $50 I can have a mod chip installed by a local technician. So for <$300 I can get a system capable of emulating A500, SNES, NES, MAME, STE, GENESIS, MASTER SYSTEM, etc., as well as running linux (albeit poorly), connecting to a network and browsing html, performing ftp, etc. And also playing DivX, MPEG, WMA, etc, etc, etc. The reason this is so cheap is because M$ apparently make no money of the console itself, just games sales. So if we all did this, maybe M$ would be in the [bleep].

I would be more prepared to spend my money on an extremely souped up classic amiga, than on one of these new 'wonder amiga's.

[BigBenAussie]

If you ask me the next step for the Amiga is really quite obvious.

You have MS and Sony at eachother's throats in the console market.
You have MS allowing other companies to license its next generation XBox hardware based on PPC tech and graphics tech far superior to what'll be out for a long time, and then at a ridiculous cost. MS want to out-clone Sony just as the Amiga and Mac got out-cloned.
They also want their XBox format to be THE format for games, and like everything MS, it looks like they'll eventually succeed, forcing Sony to be a betamax format. Sony and perhaps Nintendo might need to fight back by allowing manufacturers to clone their hardware too.

So what KMOS needs to do: (Genesi is a HW company so it can't do this aside from not owning the Amiga trademark)

License the XBox(or other) tech, make it in partnership with another hardware manufacturer. This would allow the next gen Amiga to run XBox2 hardware hitting games and AmigaOS applications and games. Its gotta be branded as an Amiga. Maybe call it the Amiga X.

So you need to port AmigaOS4 to XBox2, and have it in flash ram so it boots instantly.

Bring it out as a console computer, complete with a keyboard, mouse and games controller, optionally wireless operated. Its gotta be a full computer, and not just a console. Maybe make a garage for a small wireless keyboard/mouse(touchpad or nipple)/games controller all in one.

Put in all that wireless stuff that'll obviously be used for downloading movies on demand and AmigaDE software via broadband to portable devices like PDAs.

Make it so the kids beg their parents to get an XBox2 compatable Amiga. It'll be more expensive than a typical XBox2 but in some respect far cooler, and they can tell their parents they can do their homework on it. (Hey it worked twice for me). Make sure they have all the tools they need to be productive out of the box.

You have to make the Amiga the premium XBox2(or other) compatable, with extra memory, HD and DVR options and all that cool wireless and capacity networks stuff. Its gotta be the thinking man's XBox2. Its for those people who want an XBox but feel ashamed at buying just a toy. It needs to also be the center of their home entertainment system.

The next gen consoles are hardware waiting to be utilised.
If I was KMOS I'd be in negotiations with MS, Sony or Nintendo right now. If Sony or Nintendo wanted to get into the education market they'd need something like this. And buying into the AmigaOS means they don't have to deal with MS policies. Garry Hare said that companies were a little afraid of Linux due to patent issues(I know they're bunk, but the companies want to play it safe).

So there is my plan to save the Amiga platform and bring it back somewhat to its former heights by around the 2006 timeframe.
Whaddaya think?

[PMC]

anakirob wrote:

The AmigaOne seems to be an ordinary PC with motorolla instead of intel (a good thing, but it's still a PC). No custom hardware? This is one thing that makes classic amiga so 'classic'. Is WB4.0 going to be any more than LINUX-XWINDOWS with amigalike icons and bundled linux drivers?

How do you define "custom hardware"?  An architecture unique to one platform?

In that case, Sony, Nintendo and MS have custom hardware in their consoles but these are sold at a loss because the software makes enough profit to offset the hardware losses.  It's a marketing ploy to tempt people to buy a low cost console and fork out £25 - £45 for the games.

A new Amiga wouldn't have the luxury of a huge software base, therefore custom hardware would cost.  

Remember that PCs nowadays can be built up from a huge range of components, with no single standard build.  You can choose between ATI, Nvidia etc all competing to better the other competitor.

If Amiga needs to re-emerge then it needs to regain credibility (the average Joe thinks an Amiga is a 1987 vintage A500) by raising its profile.  Personally, I'd love to see a world class chipset that's unique to Amiga, but the commercial realities dictate otherwise.  Eyetech are going down the right route with an embedded system, as even subtle "copyright Amiga" small print on smart terminals etc is a major step.  

[Dan]

anakirob wrote:
The A500 was cheap(ish), played games as easy as inserting the disk, and could plug straight into a TV/stereo.

The AmigaOne seems to be an ordinary PC with motorolla instead of intel (a good thing, but it's still a PC). No custom hardware? This is one thing that makes classic amiga so 'classic'. Is WB4.0 going to be any more than LINUX-XWINDOWS with amigalike icons and bundled linux drivers?

I AM NOT GOING TO BUY A ONE OF THESE. NOT FOR >$1K!

Well, the mini-itx modding guys seems to be closest to the orginal amiga in spirit. Cheap hardware, connect to tv, runs lots of emulators for games, build their own hardware and make their own programs.

[Dan]

BigBenAussie wrote:
 Its gotta be the thinking man's XBox2.

I see a flaw already!:lol:

[gizz72]

Greetings,

Why not, take all custom chips(16-bit as well), make the hardware the size of a mobile notebook, bundle it with games/network utilities(Internet Browsing capable). Pluggable in a USB port, to be able to upload/download files and stuff(usually .ADF) and sell that around $300.

I call that Amiga500-II. Software are all abundant online.
Hardware 'cloning' are quite rare on the Amiga. Why not License it?

All IMHO. :-)

Regards,

Gizz