OS 4.0 on a Mac...

[minator]

don't think for a minute that all PowerMacs have the same chipsets, for example a "candy" iMac is probably not going to have the same NB controller as an eMac, or one of the server G4 Macs.

Why not?  You really think Apple are going to sepnd serveral $million designing a new Northbridge for every new model?

They may enhance NorthBridges but even then they'll still be based on the previous version.

The G5 NB will be different but only because it needs to be.

[CodeSmith]

Why not? You really think Apple are going to sepnd serveral $million designing a new Northbridge for every new model?

One word: progress :-)

I would expect (and I'm sure several million Mac users would demand) that Apple come up with an improved chipset every few years to take advantage of things like DDR memory and faster buses (IIRC the "candy" iMacs had a 66MHz bus, while the "desklamp" iMacs have a 166MHz bus)

The Mac is like the Amiga, in that users expect their computers to last more than three years.  Upgrading is something you do because you want to, not because an OS and office suite vendor demands that you do :-)  How many Mac models should OS4/Mac support?

[Hammer]

The Mac is like the Amiga, in that users expect their computers to last more than three years. Upgrading is something you do because you want to, not because an OS and office suite vendor demands that you do  How many Mac models should OS4/Mac support?

Note that, MS Office XP** and Windows XP** works fine on Celeron @433Mhz/PentiumII @400Mhz IF you throw in at least 256MB of RAM(PC66) and 7200 RPM hard disk(~25MB/s sustained). Pace for the development of core logics in X86 markets is mostly due to competitive forces e.g. battle royal between the following players i.e. VIA, NVIDIA, AMD, ATI, SIS, ALI/ULI and Intel.  

**Assumed to be Microsoft.  

[CodeSmith]

@Hammer:

Depends on what you mean by "fine".  I remember trying to run Windows 95 on my 486 DX2/66 with 8MB of RAM (well within the requirements written on the box), and it was an exercise in patience.  I have since vowed not to run any PC software unless my computer exceeds the "recommended" requirements, and many times the software I use (mostly versions of Word, Power Point, Visual Studio and assorted games) was more usable after a hardware upgrade.

Maybe my dig at Microsoft was a bit unfair, upgrade-itis is a disease that affects the entire PC industry.

[macto]

A couple of comments (from an Apple customer):

(a) How many people are going to want to buy an Amiga given the politics around licensing?  Should I buy an "Amiga", Genesi's offering will be the only one to receive due consideration.  This is largely because of the politics behind licensing Amiga OS.

(b) Very few Apple customers care about chipsets, and I get the impression Apple doesn't change them very often.  You can break down Apple's offerings into five product lines (iMac, eMac, iBook, PowerBook, and PowerMac), and you can expect minor changes every two years or so.  You can expect quite a few of the controllers to be shared between every product line (eg. audio, ethernet, USB).  Laptops may be the biggest issue because they are still using ADB controllers (ie. parts of the design are probably nearing 10 years old).  It sounds like the biggest problem would be video cards, where Apple uses chips from two manufacturers and switches frequently.  Then again, this may be less of a problem for Genesi because they would be able to enter NDAs (unlike Linux developers).

[Seehund]

CodeSmith wrote:

To me that means that each new supported mobo adds at least one more month until OS4 is released.

Why? I haven't seen anybody suggest that 4.0 shouldn't be released at all until more hardware is supported (which, with the current licensing scheme in place, would most likely mean "never").

[Seehund]

JKD wrote:
Seehund,
   I love your arguement but it implys that traditional business models and economics apply to the 'Amiga like' computers....but they don't.

The reality of it is that development (and support) of Amiga OS or an 'Amiga like' OS probably costs far more than the projected return...

Widen the hardware base and the development and support costs escalate.

Incrementally adding support for additional hardware would not cost anywhere near the initial cost for making OS4 in the first place and making it run on the Terons. Under the current circumstances the only possible returns on the money spent so far would be bundled sales to people who also are prepared to pay preposterous prices for outdated hardware on a closed-off "Amiga market". I would think that this "market" is as good as saturated already.

[CodeSmith]

Why? I haven't seen anybody suggest that 4.0 shouldn't be released at all until more hardware is supported (which, with the current licensing scheme in place, would most likely mean "never").

Well, the reason why no-one's suggested delays is because there's only one supported non-classic motherboard right now, that's the point (in fact, as far as I can tell the developer pre-release is meant to placate AmigaOne owners, the intention is still to sell both AmigaOne and Classic versions at the same time)

As to the licensing scheme, I've never seen it but I've heard nothing that would indicate it's not like most other licensing schemes, ie "pay me and you can use my brand name and logo, as long as you don't make me look bad in the process".  Everyone involved has repeatedly said that there's nothing exclusive about the license - the "problem" is that no-one outside of the little group of companies involved think the Amiga brand name is worth anything any more (that is, assuming they even thought PPC motherboards are worth selling at all).  Think of it as the conspiracy to keep fridge salesmen away from the north pole.

Regardless, I'm sure that if I decided to start selling Terons with MOL and MacOS on them, Apple would want to talk to me about a license too, even if I paid for MacOS in full.

[DFergATL]

This wouldn't be a problem if the A1 hardware wasn't so outdated and way, way, way over priced.  That seems to be the base of this whole thing.  The hardware is so outdated as to be funny, it less funny when you look at what they are asking for the old stuff and just becomes sad.  I like Amiga OS, I think OS4 is bound to be a good OS, the people working on it are dedicated to making it good.  However, I don't think they are going to get back very many former Amiga owners and even less new users at their prices.  I won't.

[vic20owner]

Definition: Amiga

1) An antique computer famous for it's graphics and video capabilities.

2) A marketing label for hardware and/or software which is intended to be marketed as poorly as possible and for the highest price conceivable.