YAM Licence

[amigakit]

@cgutjahr

If you look at the screenshots, you will see that this project is already named as "YAM 2.10 [A600GS/m68k]" 

This is to inform the user that it is a separate project.

[cgutjahr]

@amigakit:

If you look at the screenshots, you will see that this project is already named as "YAM 2.10 [A600GS/m68k]"

No it's not. Your own release notes call it "YAM", the program icon is called "YAM", the splash screen says "YAM" and the page in your wiki exclusively talks about "YAM". You did add "[A600GS/m68k]" to the version number, but that's not the same as renaming the application - and you know that.

Could you just simply confirm that the name "YAM" is not yours to use? That would be a good start, because currently it sounds a lot like you just want this discussion to go away so you can continue to do what you're doing.

Btw., when looking at your wiki page about "YAM", I found this gem:

AmigaKit Ltd adopted development of YAM for it's computer platforms after the YAM Development Team announced in April 2022 that they had discontinued development.

You just claimed in this very thread, that your version is a fork and that it is not called YAM, while your wiki claims you "adopted development of YAM". Maybe you should make up your mind?

Not to mention that this paragraph is factually incorrect, of course. Futaura - the guy who "helped you" to add AmiSSL5 support to YAM, remember? - "adopted development" of YAM. He's got access to to official repository, so he's the guy one (i.e. you) talks to re naming issues.

[amigakit]

I am sorry, I disagree with you.   There are no restrictions in the licence preventing us to use the YAM name and no trademark notices.  If you can point out information to the contrary, I will of course review it.  Our users expect it to be called YAM.  However, we have distinguished it in the splash window by the clarification that this a different version [A600/M68K].  We can add an A600GS logo to the YAM logo image if that helps?

AmigaKit Ltd adopted development of YAM for it's computer platforms after the YAM Development Team announced in April 2022 that they had discontinued development.

You are not reading this carefully enough. What are AmigaKit Ltd's computer platforms?  Well in this immediate case they are A600GS and A1200NG. 

YAM Development has been discontinued and it has been some years since it has been updated in beta/nightly build.  Therefore we have to adopt the code for the A600GS/A1200NG computer systems.  Realistically who else is going to develop YAM for our platforms?   Development costs money and it would be wonderful if the mainline YAM was not discontinued and still being developed.  In that scenario, we would not need to put resources into a dedicated version for our own platforms. 

[cgutjahr]

There are no restrictions in the licence preventing us to use the YAM name and no trademark notices.

Please stop playing games - the GPL obviously doesn't cover naming rights, but copyright for code.

The name YAM belongs to the people who have been maintaining YAM. People can fork open source projects all they want, that's the whole idea of free software. But they leave the name alone - unless the last maintainer donates it to them.

Our users expect it to be called YAM.

So you didn't rename it.

YAM Development has been discontinued and it has been some years since it has been updated in beta/nightly build.

This is Nonsense. Why would you and your "team" (hi Andy!) make bugreports in the official YAM bug tracker if "Development has been discontinued"? Why would you "feed code changes back to the YAM repo after the weekend"?

And, again: Futaura - the guy you thanked for "helping" you to add AmiSSL 5 support to YAM in this very thread - is making new releases.

Realistically who else is going to develop YAM for our platforms?

You can port existing YAM releases to your platforms. If you want to make new releases, call it SystemV54Mail or some other catchy name.

You're the guy who sent a C&D to Amiga Addict magazine and who put his own (C) stickers on other people's A1200 cases. You do not get the benefit of the doubt. Ever.

[Edit: it's "Amiga Addict", not "Amiga Passion"]

[broadblues]

I do not remember by heart, but I believe you need to pass a definition to use the DOS obsolete for things like that on OS4.

Yes but YAMs src is mostly Amiga OS4 centric , with other targets adapted to match in extrasrc.h , so that file needs updating to fit in with that approach, though S4 isn't my priority at present, the recent critical issues addressed are A600GS/AROS/Zune combo specific.

[amigakit]

@cgutjahr

The name YAM belongs to the people who have been maintaining YAM

Does filing bug reports and source code fixes count as maintenance?

Depending on that: YAM (like the other projects) is an open source project. If you like, you are welcome to create a fork of it and start developing immediately.

  Quoted from Amiga News (24/04/2022)

So you didn't rename it.

It has YAM prominently in the name and splash screen graphics in addition to [A600/M68K] and the version number etc.

This is Nonsense. Why would you and your "team" (hi Andy!) make bugreports in the official YAM bug tracker if "Development has been discontinued"? Why would you "feed code changes back to the YAM repo after the weekend"?

Because that is a decision that has been taken with every open source project we have been working on.  We gave back code to AmiBerry, AROS and YAM.   Anyone else in future who wants to fork the discontinued YAM project can benefit from the bugs that took many hours to find and fix.   Anyone who is fed up with the bugs we found can compile their own private copy too.

And, again: Futaura - the guy you thanked for "helping" you to add AmiSSL 5 support to YAM in this very thread - is making new releases.

Futaura made a nightly/beta build in 2022 - not a new public release.  We incorporated his code into our YAM A600GS public release.  He was very helpful with pointing me to the beta code using AmiSSL last September- it saved us a lot of time having to implement it ourselves.    I informed him by reply that we encountered a Timer bug which took us a week to hunt down.  When it was resolved Futaura was also informed that a bug report (and solution) was filed in the hope he knew of any developers still working on YAM.   

call it SystemV54Mail

Thanks for the marketing suggestion, I think YAM sounds better.

[cgutjahr]

Does filing bug reports and source code fixes count as maintenance?

More word games. You're not one the maintainers, end of story.

Futaura made a nightly/beta build in 2022

He made several, the last one - which I just linked to - is less than year old.

Thanks for the marketing suggestion, I think YAM sounds better.

Okay, so what you actually meant when you said "we renamed our version" is "YAM is mine now"?

[kolla]

Does filing bug reports and source code fixes count as maintenance?

Not really, we do this all the time to various projects both in private and as part of my work, but that makes me a contributor at best, not a maintainer - a maintainer is someone who does the overall work of managing and maintaining the project and its resources.

It has YAM prominently in the name and splash screen graphics in addition to [A600/M68K] and the version number etc.

Whoops.

this a different version [A600/M68K].

Whoops.

We gave back code to AmiBerry, AROS and YAM.

Have you added copyright claims on AmiBerry and AROS as well.

When something says "Copyright 2002-2022" doesn't mean the copyright ends in 2022, it means at least 50 years more. Marcel Beck explicitly gave away YAM to the YAM Open Source Team, but the YAM Open Source Team has not explicitly given away YAM to AmigaKit.

Futaura made a nightly/beta build in 2022 - not a new public release.

The nightly beta builds (2024, not 2022) were/are publicly released and publicly available, so what are you talking about?

We incorporated his code into our YAM A600GS public release.

This, however... public release?