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Author Topic: GURU Boot issue when power cycling  (Read 10876 times)

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Offline Castellen

Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 08, 2018, 06:23:31 AM »
Quote from: A4000Bear;821440
I have an A4000T which has an extreme manifestation of this problem.

I have to keep the power off for up to two minutes in order to prevent the Guru from returning after a bad crash.



The problem in the A4000T is different to the one I mentioned above; mine does this too from a cold power on.  From what I can tell, it's something happening with the IDE driver in ROM.  If you power up the A4000T, with the standard v40.70 ROM, and something connected to the IDE interface, then you get the guru message with Error=80000025  Task=07C02228.  But it eventually gets over that and boots normally.  And a warm boot is OK.  The problem doesn't happen if you're using SCSI only and nothing connected to the IDE interface.

I was doing some testing recently with the ROM software developer and this A4000T power up error problem is resolved in the Cloanto v45.64 (3.X) ROM.  You'll need the specific A4000T version of this, which I don't see on the AmigaKit.com website.  Not sure if it's officially available or not yet, send them a query.
 

Offline RiP

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Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2018, 08:03:47 PM »
Quote from: Castellen;838327
I've not tested this solution, but most likely it can easily be corrected by putting a small signal diode (e.g. 1N4148) across R711 (A500/A500+) or R611 (A600) with the cathode (stripe side) towards the 5V end of the said resistor, and the anode connected to the side of the resistor that connects to pin 2 of the 555 timer IC.

Thanks, let me try it :)
Also take a look at the Cyan box, possible to test or should I replace them? :hammer:

« Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 01:01:33 PM by RiP »
 

Offline RiP

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Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2018, 02:55:05 PM »
Quote from: Castellen;838327
I've not tested this solution, but most likely it can easily be corrected by putting a small signal diode (e.g. 1N4148) across R711 (A500/A500+) or R611 (A600) with the cathode (stripe side) towards the 5V end of the said resistor, and the anode connected to the side of the resistor that connects to pin 2 of the 555 timer IC.

Unfortunately it didn't help and I still get random errors at startup (not for the first time) e.g. #00000003.00001970



Also take a look at the Cyan box, should I replace them?

 

Offline Castellen

Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2018, 08:41:11 PM »
Quote from: RiP;838370
Unfortunately it didn't help and I still get random errors at startup (not for the first time) e.g. #00000003.00001970

Also take a look at the Cyan box, should I replace them?



Looks as though you've got the diode fitted correctly.  At power up, just before you get the error message, is the system being held in reset state initially?

The easiest way to tell is to measure at pin 3 of the 555 timer IC (U42) at power on.  It should always be high (about 3V to 5V) at power on for approx. half a second, then go low (0V).  If it's doing this and you're getting the error, then there's another problem.  If it's not doing this, then there's some problem with the reset circuit.


The other two resistors you mentioned are for 5V power out the mouse/joystick ports.  The 5V pin has been shorted to ground at some point and the resistors have been very hot.  If your mouse is still working, then they're probably still OK.  Measure across them with the power off, they should be about 4.7 Ohms each.  But regardless of their condition, these can't cause the power on error.
 

Offline RiP

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Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2018, 08:06:53 PM »
Not sure exactly, I see the dark gray, gray, white then #xxxxxxxx.00C01570 error and sometimes only black screen.
I measured pin3 and seems it's fine.
 

Offline Castellen

Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2018, 08:38:08 PM »
Quote from: RiP;838413
Not sure exactly, I see the dark gray, gray, white then #xxxxxxxx.00C01570 error and sometimes only black screen.
I measured pin3 and seems it's fine.



That's potentially a different problem then, the one I described affects things much earlier on, meaning you'll get the guru message before the colour change.

Just to clarify, does this only happen following a brief on-off-on power cycle?  It could also be a problem that the reset on power on isn't holding the system in reset state for long enough.

Keep in mind that the 5V supply has to fall low enough to trigger a reset in the first place, which would be to at least 1-2V at a guess.  If the power interruption is too brief, the supply brownout can be enough to cause system operation to fail, but not to trigger the reset circuit, meaning it'll need a soft reset, or a longer power cycle, to restore operation.  Which is why later designs used a proper supply monitor, or made the power supply do this - which is the purpose of the PG (power good) output from power supplies in A3000, A4000, etc.


You'd need to find a better way of testing it in your A500.  Easiest way is to get a dual trace oscilloscope, set the time base to 100mSec/division, connect Ch A to the 5V supply and trigger on the rising edge, connect Ch B to pin 3 of the 555 timer IC.

What you'd expect to see is that on power up (when the 5V supply becomes active), timer pin 3 goes high almost immediately, stays high for approx. 470mSec, then goes low (bringing the system out of reset state).

If it's doing that, but the time is much shorter than expected, then there's probably a problem with capacitor C712 (10µF).
 

Offline RiP

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Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2018, 09:36:12 AM »
It only happens when I turn off/on power supply.
Ok, I'll replace C712 too.
 

Offline RiP

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Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2018, 03:06:42 PM »
Quote from: Castellen;838438
If it's doing that, but the time is much shorter than expected, then there's probably a problem with capacitor C712 (10µF).


Unfortunately, replacing C712 didn't help too :(
 

Offline Castellen

Re: GURU Boot issue when power cycling
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2018, 08:34:21 PM »
Quote from: RiP;838657
Unfortunately, replacing C712 didn't help too :(



As mentioned, you'll need to make a few measurements to figure out where the problem is.  The approach of "replace random component x and hope that fixes it" gets old pretty quick.

See my previous comment about how to test what the reset circuit is doing at powerup when you get the Guru message.  You'll need to determine if it's working correctly or not to understand where to proceed from here.