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Offline AAACHIPSETTopic starter

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crazy thought crazy question
« on: June 17, 2016, 02:44:27 PM »
always  felt that if the amiga  had survived  to the next level chipset  that the amiga wouldve  survived  probably like the apple  did  at first till he went into mobiles  ..which gave me a wild  thought  ....with the power of the latest  computers we have  now  and the emulation programs  that run the amiga  on these programs  do you think we could emulate a new chipset ?
A500 3.1/8meg/2gigscsi ...wants a 040
CD32/SX1/FMV/FLASHDRIVE/  wants sx32pro
A1200  os3.5 030/50/fpu/mmu/2flashdrives/cd/   indivision coming ..............wants a ppc/060  ACCEL :laughing:
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2016, 02:54:48 PM »
Lol. That's already being done, see new Vampire board, etc. etc. ;)
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline HammerD

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2016, 02:59:44 PM »
I think he may have meant emulate the AAA chipset.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline Pentad

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2016, 06:55:33 PM »
If the specifications were available for AAA, Hombre, and Nyx, you could emulate all of them in software.  However, emulated hardware is only half the equation, you would need software to run and I don't believe we have anything for these machines.

Not that you couldn't write software to support the emulated hardware.  However, we are talking a huge task for both.

-P
Linux User (Arch & OpenSUSE TW) - WinUAE via WINE
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2016, 07:43:17 PM »
Quote from: HammerD;810065
I think he may have meant emulate the AAA chipset.

AAA?  As Scotty said in Star Trek IV, "Why in god's name would you want that bucket of bolts?"  :laughing:



Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2017, 10:21:18 PM »
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;810081
AAA?  As Scotty said in Star Trek IV, "Why in god's name would you want that bucket of bolts?"  :laughing:




Well, AAA is only the half of what the AA3000 prototypes promised...

... PCI slots. 2 or 3 usable, 100MHz, 32 or 64 bit. DMA supported, but only 5V type.

... Dual displays. You could double up on Monicas and Lindas. Both displays would run at maximum rate. I think Gemini was a prototype for that, together with twin mounting for 68030s and 68882s. Perfect for VR.

... Automatic blitting at chunky pixels, as well as traditional bitplanes.

....8 channel 64KHz 20 bit audio pixel playback via Mary chip, with 16 bit sampling at lower rates built in.

... cheap frame buffer for easy and low cost video digitization...

... no chipRAM slowdowns. Hardly ever.

... DSP capable of independent access to 32 bit memory.

That was the prototype A3000+, incredibly rare machine from 1991, hazily revealed at Devcon in 1993.

The AA3000 was similar, but just had AA chipset and DSP had to be done via CPU card with 68040 on board. Still nice if you wanted PCI though, I think.

The idea was, you could buy a motherboard, and just add RAM of a certain spec, and modules of a certain spec. You didn't have to have Zorro cards even. You paid a fortune and got amazing real time video editing, studio quality graphics and sound. Or you just went standard Amiga FP-RAM, 68030, AA chipset, and maybe might think about a DSP or PowerPC or different processor later.

I am not too sure which variant had the true 32/64 bit "Dual display" capability to be honest. Still researching.

Modularity was what it was all about - something the home Amigas never did that well.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2017, 10:38:05 PM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline Oldsmobile_Mike

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2017, 11:17:25 PM »
Quote from: Pat the Cat;821212
That was the prototype A3000+, incredibly rare machine from 1991, hazily revealed at Devcon in 1993.

Meh. Pretty awesome tech, but useless without any software to run on it.  You can emulate a Commodore 65, too, much to the same effect.  (although I think there is actually some C65 software out there, unlike AAA)

My biggest disappointment was that this never got off the ground.  :(

http://www.amigahistory.plus.com/prototypes/transputer.html
Amiga 500: 2MB Chip|16MB Fast|30MHz 68030+68882|3.9|Indivision ECS|GVP A500HD+|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|Cocolino|SCSI DVD-RAM
Amiga 2000: 2MB Chip|136MB Fast|50MHz 68060|3.9|Indivision ECS + GVP Spectrum|Mechware card reader + 8GB CF|AD516|X-Surf 100|RapidRoad|Cocolino|SCSI CD-RW
 Amiga videos and other misc. stuff at https://www.youtube.com/CompTechMike/videos
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2017, 11:56:28 PM »
wELLLL... development was done some. There were lots of ideas for transputers and multiple processors. Avalon probably not as good as A3000+. AA3000 even more funky.

DSP OS was ported, various codecs for audio, CD in digital formats were implemented, but not all options were explored. The system was deemed easily capable of implementing any kind of world standard for digital video, up to about 110Mhz DAC. After that you needed a graphics card, but about 1024 X 768 in 24 bit. Real time play backback, about 24 Hz just with AAA. Maybe faster.

The snag was RAM cost. Commodore thought cheap fast video RAM as we know it today was just too expensive for the end user. So never built past prototypes, which ran about 5.5Ns per clock cycle for the "deluxe" option. The deluxe option, Monica, Mary, Andrea etc, you couldn't play games on unless they were system friendly. You coul  do military or aeronautical sims and modeliing in 256 colour, stereoscopic display. I guess that's were some of the tech went.

At least, as far as domestic production of an Amiga went. I have no idea what happened to the chipset technology, but there were some patents made around it, and patents can be worth money... not just the Amiga chipset, that particular DSP, 3210. had real world apps too.

AT&T never being allowed to sell computer hardware as such probably had a big part in it. Then they got split it and finally laid to rest, company called Aerial Corp ended up with chip but they went out of business real quick.

Apple used the DSP quite successfully, but their implementation was very slow compared to AAA. The hardware was awesome, CBM just never built it and made sure it never happened.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 12:13:16 AM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline darkage

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Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2017, 12:12:00 AM »
even if commodore made it to the next chipset level, I think they would have still be in trouble unless they utilise more off the shelf components /cards from other manufacturors using open standards just like what the PC did.     ie. Gfx, Sound cards etc,    

R&Ding your own custom chips, slows you down increasing the time between new technology releases as they get more complex.   Best if you can shift  that to 3rd parties to free up your own resources.
 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2017, 12:25:10 AM »
Quote from: darkage;821219
even if commodore made it to the next chipset level, I think they would have still be in trouble unless they utilise more off the shelf components /cards from other manufacturors using open standards just like what the PC did.     ie. Gfx, Sound cards etc,    

R&Ding your own custom chips, slows you down increasing the time between new technology releases as they get more complex.   Best if you can shift  that to 3rd parties to free up your own resources.

Yes, in hindsight, if they had just done an A1000+ with PCI slots they would have done OK. Kind of the "games" Amiga that never happened.

Dave Hazey was trying, you can tell from his notes on the Rev 1 A3000+

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/display_photos/e3dd7954-0c78-45fb-9b72-bbbe0b7c110d.jpg

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/media/display_photos/0bc3926f-1ab8-4a5d-9c47-5cb11770a140.jpg

PCI slots, factored into a 1991 design. PCI dev working started in 1990, launched 1992. CBM could have been there. Would not have needed fancy chipset if multiple PCI slots available.
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline agami

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Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2017, 01:49:07 AM »
There's more that would have needed to happen in the sequencing for AAA to be released at a time that could potentially keep Commodore hobbling along until someone eventually replaced Mehdi Ali and possibly turned things around:

Way I see it, ECS should have come out in 88, AGA to come out in early 91 and then AAA to come out in 93. Commodore could have established a tick-tock chipset lifecycle so every 18 months there is either a new chipset or a refinement of the existing.
---------------AGA Collection---------------
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Offline Pat the Cat

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2017, 02:08:50 AM »
Well, the people are half of it, and the way they played the cards dealt to them.

I reckon the other half is the technology. AAA was trying to reach 133MHz front side bus memory. It didn't quite stretch that high, in 1993-94. Certainly not on easily affordable memory running that fast.

That's the point where the PC could go AGP X 4, full DMA PCI, DDR etc etc. Those bits CBM were aiming for, but couldn't quite reach before they hit the dust.

They burned too hot and too fast, and not enough fuel in the right places. No real plan, or maybe a set of lots of plans that didn't mesh with the times and technology available and affordable.

Maybe nobody could have saved the Amiga from a crash and burn with Commodore. I certainly couldn't. Mehdi Ali and all the other bad decision takers, maybe none of that really mattered much, in the long run.

Look at when things where invented, and the order CBM had to play to be able to deliver value. They didn't have many options, and I think reserving AAA purely for research and development was their chief downfall. If they had at least plugged PCI, they would have gotten a lot easier support for hardware in general, that gradually got cheaper and faster than Zorro.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_device_bit_rates#Memory_Interconnect.2FRAM_buses
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 02:35:41 AM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi
 

Offline EugeneNine

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Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2017, 03:31:33 AM »
Quote from: AAACHIPSET;810062
till he went into mobiles


 

Offline Pat the Cat

Re: crazy thought crazy question
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2017, 03:37:55 AM »
Technically feasible with hardware, very challenging to do mobile with Amiga classic hardware. Especially the battery, it would weigh a LOT to give you meaningful standby/talk time. Even lithium polymer has problems. SSD battery would be good but VERY expensive. Lithium Ion tends not to last that long.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 03:40:23 AM by Pat the Cat »
"To recurse is human. To iterate, divine."

A1200, Vanilla, Surf Squirrel, SD Card, KS 3.0/3.z, PCMCIA dev
A500, Vanilla, A570, Rev 5, KS 1.2/1.3 Testbench system
Rasp Pi, UAE4ARM, 3D laser scanner, experimental, hoping for AmigaOS4Arm, based on Watterott Fabscan Pi