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Author Topic: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???  (Read 3272 times)

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Offline QuikSanz

Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #14 from previous page: December 25, 2003, 09:46:43 AM »
Hi Effy,

The way I look at the Amiga is BIG & small things. The bus is limited but, workable. Bus load should be prioritised to... Graphics card, there's a lot, sound, I/O Goodies.. ethernet, USB etc.
Just try to logic a priority. The less you have working the bus at the same time, the better.

Chris
 

Offline QuikSanz

Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2003, 09:54:33 AM »
Hi,

Didn't quit answer the the whole thing. Unfortunatly accels only come in one flavor, SCSI. Rather expesive but,
they can read and write simultaniously and with DMA at turbo card speed your jaw will drop.

Chris
 

Offline Lemmink

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2003, 11:51:39 AM »
Quote

Now that you keep hitting on the bus-problem, what's the use of an expensive Powerflyer IDE controller then if the bus speed slows a lot down


IDE on the amiga is way slower then the ZIII Bus of the A3/4000. Theoretically ZIII can achieve 25 MB/s, practically it is more down to 12-15 MB/s. For common IDE controllers in an Amiga 3.5 MB/s is a good rate while haveing nearly 100% CPU-Load. The Powerflyer (I assume it`t the same as the Fast ATA4000) can lift this rate by useing a higher PIO mode wich can transfer more data per CPU-cycle. While the CPU will still be near 100% usage you could get around 6-7 MB/s max.
You see when it comes to IDE the CPU is the bottleneck. With a decent SCSI-Controller like the SCSI-Module for the CS MKII or the Fastlane you can easyly get 7 MB/s in syncronus mode while haveing a CPU-load of only 20% max.
SCSI-controllers on ZII cards are in fact slowed down by the bus specification since ZII could only transfer 3.5 MB/s at best (never seen a HD go this fast on a ZII SCSI) but the CPU load is still low (as long as the card supports DMA)
Not really interesting, but it`s there.
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Offline EffyTopic starter

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2003, 01:31:58 PM »
If Zorro3 is backwards compatible with Zorro2, then why does Elbox design a Powerflyer (FastATAcontroller) for Zorro3 while there are other Zorro2 ide controllers on the market  :-?
I am also thinking about getting a fast ide controller but when I read your comments about pushing the cpu to 100% then it suddenly doesn't look so attractive anymore. Seems better to get a scsi controller and an ide-to-scsi adapter and hook up a 40 Gb ide harddisc to that ...

Offline Lemmink

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2003, 05:41:51 PM »
Quote

If Zorro3 is backwards compatible with Zorro2, then why does Elbox design a Powerflyer (FastATAcontroller) for Zorro3 while there are other Zorro2 ide controllers on the market

Thats because ZorroII cards (16bit) can only handle 3.5 MB/s maximum. that won`t change if you stuck it into a ZorroIII Bus (32bit). If you want to go over those 3.5 MB/s you have to change the carddesign over to Zorro III. But ZorroIII design is more expensive then ZII, so you see it in the endprice.

Quote

I am also thinking about getting a fast ide controller but when I read your comments about pushing the cpu to 100% then it suddenly doesn't look so attractive anymore


The IDE protocoll is just plain dump (though it got a little smarten with increasing PIO Mode) it relies on the CPU to tell the controller where to put every byte from RAM to disk or the other way round.
SCSI on the other hand is a lot smarter,the CPU only tells the controller move those files fom A to B and tell me when it`s done (no pun intended ;-) ).
This is the reason why SCSI is allway a lot more expensive then IDE, it needs a lotmore logic especially on the drives itselve.
Since modern CPUs only shrug their shoulders at the extraload that is thrown at them from the IDE controller and IDE component are a lot cheaper SCSI practically vanished from the consumer market and is now mainly found on servers where still every CPU cycle counts especially when there are lots of drives to work.
For Amiga with it`s weak CPU SCSI is a must. The onyl reason for useing IDE on the Amiga would be that you don`t have the money (cables an terminators cost extra too)

Quote


Seems better to get a scsi controller and an ide-to-scsi adapter and hook up a 40 Gb ide harddisc to that...

This is definately a good investment as SCSI-drives usually cost twice as much as IDE-drives, especially when you want big ones. If you want to upgrade your HD you could allways recycle the adapter. I got two of them an never regreted it, low CPU-load and fast transferrates (though not as fast as as straigh SCSI-drive, but 7 MB/s easily).
You only have to see that the Adapter makes good contakt to the drive, I affixed mine with tape and folded papaer as a spacer.
When the Adapter breaks down you data won`t be lost, as you can then just hook it up to an IDE controller and go.

One last Warning, it isn`t all gold that is SCSI on the Amiga, there are some old SCSI controllers that don`t support DMA, so the CPU has to do the work again.
So if you want to get a SCSI-controler make sure it supports DMA, this is per se true for all P5 modells, single and on turboboards.
Not really interesting, but it`s there.
http://www.lemmink.joice.net
 

Offline EffyTopic starter

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2003, 09:05:02 AM »
Thanx for the detailed info. I saw a Fastlane Z3 going on Ebay a few days ago for 51 euro, including a few mb's of 32 pins Simm's. Maybe it is better if I search for a cheap 68040 turboboard where I can put EDO's on to start with, and if possible also with a real scsi controller ...

Offline Brian

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2003, 04:46:40 PM »
A PCU card with SCSI and memory will always be the best choise if you can afford it. :-)

Offline EffyTopic starter

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2003, 01:59:28 PM »
I´m now bidding on a whole A4000 system with a Warpengine 040/40 mhz with 4 72 pins Simm modules, but with no scsi on board. But then I can still get myself a beefy Poyerflyer 4000 from Elbox ... even if that puts a heavy load on the processor ...

Offline EffyTopic starter

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Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2003, 02:13:46 PM »
And I still keep an eye on this 68060 MK II on Ebay ... but there does not seem to be a scsi controller added ...

Offline TjLaZer

Re: Knowledge gap. What board to use for adding Ram to A4000 ???
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2003, 06:55:23 AM »
@Brian

Well yes the Z3 RAM and MB RAM are slower but are at a lower priority.  So my FAAST GVP 32-bit RAM is used first.  If that runs out then the other mem is used.  I really don't use the memory I just like having all that RAM ;)
Going Bananas over AMIGAs since 1987...

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