A2000 Toaster Problems on inputs 2,3,4

[rcgrabbag]

Hi all,
I have an A2000 with a system 2.0 Toaster system installed. I'm using DVD players as input to test out the switcher using non-copyrighted material (home made dvd's), but anything I hook up to inputs 2, 3 and 4 has major video image issues. The images have vertical and horizontal scrolling black bars, are jittering, scrolling and distorted, hardly recognizable and unusable. This problem doesn't exist on input 1. I've run the signal through an installed TBC, tried swapping dvd players to the different inputs, moving all components as far away from each other as possible, nothing seems to help. The Toaster manual, as big as it is, doesn't seem to  have anything that can give me a clue. I'm running a two-monitor setup, preferences is set up for that, and I'm pretty much at a loss. What's special about inputs 2, 3, and 4?

[Matt_H]

Take all this with a grain of salt, as I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about: I've read that even stable video signals (like DVD players) need to be synced to a TBC if there's more than one of them. I'm not sure how one would go about that. Hopefully someone else here has a better answer.

You might also try giving NewTek a call - they still repair Amiga Toasters, though I'm not sure they'll be able to do tech support over the phone.

[rcgrabbag]

I think you are correct. Reading further into the TBC manual, I was able to get a stable signal on 2,3 and 4 by using another video source to sync with. But, having only one TBC card provides only one stable input signal. In order to get two stable signals, I need another TBC card.

[save2600]

What I don't fully understand is why the Video Toaster requires a TBC in the first place. NONE of the other Genlocks for the Amiga (external or internal) ever required one. Is it only because TBC is necessary for 100% compatibility with pro video and studio standards? So much for the Amiga being fully "NTSC" compatible. lol

I've been "genlocking" on the Amiga for over 20 years and have made dozens of video tapes for play across a wide range of televisions and VCR's. Never had a single complaint. Threw a VT2000 in my machine and ran into roadblock after roadblock getting the thing to perform some simple transitions. Admittedly, I wasn't perfectly set up for it (lack of a good TBC), but I did have an external one that wouldn't sync up perfectly. But jeez... good TBC's are still expensive to this day!  Ended up getting rid of my Toaster for that very reason  

[rcgrabbag]

Yeah, that's weird. I notice when the Toaster is launched, there is a stored image of the Video Toaster logo in memory that I can use as a second "input" signal, so to speak, and that's nice and stable, but of course, that image is not coming from one of the external input buses.

[marcfrick2112]

@save 2600, and whoever else ....

The issue is that the Toaster is alot more than 'a genlock' ... For better or worse, the Toasters needs absolutely Perfect video to work with.. When I was testing my Toaster4000 in a similar way to the OP, I had to run the DVD output through the TBC and a macrovision defeat box (copyguard remover) even though it was a copied DVD that was supposedly stripped of MacroVision... :confused:

There's no easy or cheap answer... Look out for a 'Kitchen Sync' on EBay (dual TBC card) , check pro video outfits for used outboard TBC's, some semi-pro switchers had TBC's on-board (tho' they could end up costing as much as your Toaster system....)

Honestly, the Toaster is really pro, or semi-pro equipment... it was expected that most purchasers already had several TBC's, black burst / sync generators, etc.... Remember, the orginal price for the Toaster was a 'mere' $1,995.00 ....

But, Why, oh Why, did they never make a PAL version ?

[JimS]

The thing with the Toaster is that you need to syncronize up to 4 external video sources with each other and the computer. A Genlock only has to sync the computer to one external source. That means the horizontal and vertcal scan rates must match, as well as the color burst clock on all four sources. Basically, the TBCs have to digitize the video and clock it out in sync. The Genlock just derives that color clock and sync pulses from the external source and uses them to lock the amiga to them.

[Crom00]

The toaster must be fed broadcast quality video. The definition of broadcast means the timing must be spot on. At the time NewTek engineered the toaster including TBC chips would have been too expensive.

I had similar problems. I used to feed input 1 with a live DV cam, input 2 with the composite out from a Cable box. For what it's worth you can feed the toaster with a DV camera off of tape.

Also there are external modern TBC's that you can purchase from B and H photo. I did this with one of my flyers.

Gotta understand the way the toaster was meant to be used:

A) Live production- 4 live cameras, calibrated and synced
B) A-B roll edit system using the same PRO VERSION BETACAMSP make and model VCR

I think you're trying a plug and play approach used on some PC consumer gear. If you run that output through a vectorsope it would be a mess. The toaster output was designed to be top notch and pass the inspection of old Skool TV engineers.

Another solution for me was to use a firewire router with 4 inputs, connect my DV tape sources to that. So I had 2 sony cameras, a DV tape deck, any analog sources were run through that with a Dazzle Analog to DV bridge. I connected this firewire router through a MAC using Imovie and would switch the sources.

Pretty ghetto solution but i was able to maitain sync.

Also helps to calibrate the toaster with the inputs you intend to use, once you start plugging and unplugging sources you cause problems.

[Crom00]

NewTek moved onto the PC version of the toaster where a TBC was no longer required and the "toaster code" was moved to FPGA style chips or ASICS (if I remember correctly)

It's a much more versatile and cleaner solution and maintains the Toaster feel. If you're serious about video and not tinkering with retro Amigas a Tricaster Duo or Tricaster would be great.

Or any of the Matrox cards, or Pinnacle products can serve you better.

I loved my Flyers and Amigas and moved on, not because they didn't work, but because the industry moved on and better, cheaper solutions were developed. My Flyers were deployed and turned on when I got them and turned off when I retired them. How many products can claim that?