Mmmmmmm me want

[Trev]

@adolescent

Which is why I said Microsoft must be getting stingy with their SKUs. The compiler itself still supports the various architectures. Microsoft must have decided not to sell Windows Mobile 6.x for anything than ARM (and probably x86 for testing).

As far as eye candy, of course the iPhone can flip, rotate, and texture map screens. It also multitasks (it's running the same kernel as Mac OS X, after all). The difference is that task switching is controlled by the Home button and Home screen. The OP asked whether or not the iPhone could do it, not whether or not the operating environment mimicked that behavior out of the box.

The thing I don't like about the iPhone, iPod Touch, Windows CE/Embedded/Mobile, and so on is that when you close an application, it doesn't end the process. Instead, the process continues running in the background. You can kill processes on all the environments I've mentioned, but it's usually difficult and annoying to do so (holding the Home button on the iPhone, control panel on Windows). The same annoyance exists in Mac OS X (and NeXT, I suppose, which is where Mac OS X got it), but at least you have an option to end the process directly.

It's also prevalent in Windows apps that minimize to the system tray (which was never intended for that purpose) and UNIX apps that run as a combination daemon and user interface. In other words, it takes control of the process out of the hands of the user. Bad mojo. Time to revolt against the MCP, perhaps.

@JJ

I don't know if you can use iTunes (or another media player) as background music while you play a game. I'm not sure you would want to, though. Personally, I prefer to play games the way the designers intended them to be played--in the same I prefer matted widescreen to pan and scan. ;-) The iPhone, like most mobile devices, is not supposed to be all things to everybody, although it's more of a general purpose computer than most phones. The same can be said of Windows Mobile devices, I'm sure.

That sort of task switching is also a serious resource drain, unless the idle tasks are properly suspended. Most small devices are designed with a specific power budget/footprint in mind.

EDIT: Just thinking that I would like to create a custom radio station in Fallout 3 that streams from the XM 40's station. The GNR station in the game gets repetitive. I also had the BGM so low that I didn't realize the game even had BGM until after I'd finished it the first time through.

[bloodline]

Yes, the iPhone is full of battery wasting eye candy... Which raises one of my two criticism of the iPhone.

Battery life is poor... to be fair if you just use it as a Phone and iPod, it has a decent battery life... but as soon as you watch movie, play a game and hit the web... you can easily run the battery dead.

As strange as it sound the iPhone/iPod Touch only allows one application to run at a time (Apple's own apps, SMS, Email, Phone, iPod and Calendar all run in the background, but no others). These are the rules of the SDK, if you violate them, then Apple don't allow you to post on the App Store.  Apple have clearly stated this is to ensure that the battery and memory resource are not used accidentally (given how battery hungry it already is, that is a good move)

When you hit the Home button the Application must quit out, Apple do provide the option of saving the program state to the non-volatile memory before quitting, thus the application can return to where the user left off upon restart.

This leads me to my second criticism of the iPhone... Applications are supposed to be able to register with the Apple Push server, so that any notification events could be run "in the background" without using any of the iPhone's battery... it's a great idea and clever solution to the background task problem... Apple promised it in September... and some early Beta's of OS 2.1 had it switched on... but it's now December and they have STILL not rolled it out to the users yet... this is a really lame thing.

[bloodline]

JJ wrote:
You can only run one app at a time on the Iphone ?

Yes, that's right.

Really, honestly.

Honestly!

So you cant for instance, be playing a game with the sound off, listening to your mp3s and switch to a browswer and then switch back to the game.

No, Apple's iPod app is allowed to run in the background, so you can listen to mp3s while doing other things. if you double tap the home button a small iPod interface pops up over the currently running app, so you can change songs etc...

Safari, the web browser, saves it's state on exit so that when you reopen it, you start exactly where you left off, but it wasn't running while exited... you can test this but having a simple JavaScript counter running on a webpage... it will stop for the time the app was closed :-)

If not thats seriously rubbish and limiting.

If Developers save the app state upon exit (and register a push service, if apple ever get around to activating it), then you would never know the app wasn't running and using up valuable battery.

[Trev]

@bloodline

I did not know that, and actually, it makes me like my iPhone a little more. ;-) The last thing I want is Widgety Guy computing pi in the background and chewing up my battery.

EDIT: But I'm not fond of vendors artificially restricting their customers. Still, it results in a more stable platform.

[AmigaHeretic]

Trev wrote:
@bloodline

I did not know that, and actually, it makes me like my iPhone a little more. ;-) The last thing I want is Widgety Guy computing pi in the background and chewing up my battery.

EDIT: But I'm not fond of vendors artificially restricting their customers. Still, it results in a more stable platform.

That seems strange to me.

What about "chat" apps like MSN, Yahoo, etc..  On my phone I use 'Fring' a messenger app that has all the big ones at once ICQ, MSN, etc...  How would that even work if it can't run in the background.

IRC app? (I use zsIRC) I mean I leave zsIRC running in the background while I surf the web.  Would be pretty useless if I had to close it and open everytime I want to do something else on my phone and the channel wouldn't be too happy either ;-)

I stream ShoutCasts all the time while surfing, chatting, etc.  Does the native iTunes player allow streaming?

Yeah, I've maybe gotten too use to my phone being a mini-computer. Might be a bad thing!   :-D  :-D  :-D

[Trev]

I think apps like AIM have to be running to receive messages. Thought: if they ran in the background, they'd compete with Apple/AT&T's implementation of SMS. Same goes for media players. Apple would probably frown upon (or even forbid) anything that competes with iTunes. That's too bad, though, since you can use the iTunes desktop app to listen to "Internet radio" stations. The same functionality should be added to the iPhone/iPod Touch. I guess you can listen to podcasts, but I'm not sure if those can be live streams or if they're just the fixed length recordings uploaded to iTunes--I haven't used it yet. I'm sure Bloodline can weigh in here.

The advent of "netbooks" is once again changing people's views of mobile devices. I think someone already commented on buying a netbook with a 3G card as opposed to a smart phone of the same price. (Or maybe I read that somewhere else.)

Semi-related question: does anyone see value in an iTunes-compatible (read: iPod software clone) audio player for Amiga-like systems? Not sure how connectivity would work, but I'm thinking along the lines of using mDNS to locate local iTunes libraries.

[bloodline]

AmigaHeretic wrote:

Trev wrote:
@bloodline

I did not know that, and actually, it makes me like my iPhone a little more. ;-) The last thing I want is Widgety Guy computing pi in the background and chewing up my battery.

EDIT: But I'm not fond of vendors artificially restricting their customers. Still, it results in a more stable platform.

That seems strange to me.

What about "chat" apps like MSN, Yahoo, etc..  On my phone I use 'Fring' a messenger app that has all the big ones at once ICQ, MSN, etc...  How would that even work if it can't run in the background.

IRC app? (I use zsIRC) I mean I leave zsIRC running in the background while I surf the web.  Would be pretty useless if I had to close it and open everytime I want to do something else on my phone and the channel wouldn't be too happy either ;-)

I stream ShoutCasts all the time while surfing, chatting, etc.  Does the native iTunes player allow streaming?

Yeah, I've maybe gotten too use to my phone being a mini-computer. Might be a bad thing!   :-D  :-D  :-D

This is what the Push service is for... Your IM or IRC client registers with the Apple Push server, and when you close down the app, the Push Server runs the Client, and can notify you of any new messages via "Badges" and alert boxes. This means that the IM/IRC client is actually running on Apple's server while the app is closed on the phone... it's complicated to explain, but simple to understand (Think cloud computing)... anyway it gives you functionality of the app still running, but with no battery usage... the disadvantage is that you need to have a data connection for it to work... but for something like an IM/IRC client, you need a data connection anyway :-)

Anyway, this is a great idea... that Apple have Beta, but not not for masses yet... and they are three months late :-(

[bloodline]

Trev wrote:
I think apps like AIM have to be running to receive messages. Thought: if they ran in the background, they'd compete with Apple/AT&T's implementation of SMS. Same goes for media players. Apple would probably frown upon (or even forbid) anything that competes with iTunes. That's too bad, though, since you can use the iTunes desktop app to listen to "Internet radio" stations.

I use CapitalFM 98 app on my iPhone (it's the best UK one, for sure, and despite it's name it streams loads of different radio stations), to listen to internet radio... there are quite a few internet radio apps on the apps store! :-)

The same functionality should be added to the iPhone/iPod Touch. I guess you can listen to podcasts, but I'm not sure if those can be live streams or if they're just the fixed length recordings uploaded to iTunes--I haven't used it yet. I'm sure Bloodline can weigh in here.

iPhoneOS 2.2 supports podcasts over the network and wifi... works really well... on a long boring train journey for example :-)

The advent of "netbooks" is once again changing people's views of mobile devices. I think someone already commented on buying a netbook with a 3G card as opposed to a smart phone of the same price. (Or maybe I read that somewhere else.)

People love netbooks... I use my iPhone for almost all my internet and Email now... like right now :-) So I guess people find the same use with Netbooks... I would have no need of one.

Semi-related question: does anyone see value in an iTunes-compatible (read: iPod software clone) audio player for Amiga-like systems? Not sure how connectivity would work, but I'm thinking along the lines of using mDNS to locate local iTunes libraries.

Would be fun, are there any open source ones that could be ported?


I have "Simplify Media" app on my iPhone... I run Simplify Server on my old PowerBook at home that can stream my entire itunes collection over the internet to my iPhone... or any computer who knows my IP address and my Simplify password :-D

-Edit- http://www.simplifymedia.com/

[AmigaHeretic]

bloodline wrote:
This is what the Push service is for... Your IM or IRC client registers with the Apple Push server, and when you close down the app, the Push Server runs the Client, and can notify you of any new messages via "Badges" and alert boxes. This means that the IM/IRC client is actually running on Apple's server while the app is closed on the phone... it's complicated to explain, but simple to understand (Think cloud computing)... anyway it gives you functionality of the app still running, but with no battery usage... the disadvantage is that you need to have a data connection for it to work... but for something like an IM/IRC client, you need a data connection anyway :-)

Mmm.. kinda understand.  I think that's how AT&Ts OGO use to work and one of the reasons they stopped support for OGO though. :-(  One of my favorite devices of all time.  Same thing though, it had IM that ran on their servers and you connected to their server sort of thing.  All basically transparent.  Except sometimes it stayed logged into your AIM, MSN, Yahoo even though you weren't on.  Then people would think you were on, but never responding.  It didn't have IRC though.

Anyway, this is a great idea... that Apple have Beta, but not not for masses yet... and they are three months late :-(

So can anyone write on IRC app and have access to these servers of theirs?

[bloodline]

AmigaHeretic wrote:

bloodline wrote:
This is what the Push service is for... Your IM or IRC client registers with the Apple Push server, and when you close down the app, the Push Server runs the Client, and can notify you of any new messages via "Badges" and alert boxes. This means that the IM/IRC client is actually running on Apple's server while the app is closed on the phone... it's complicated to explain, but simple to understand (Think cloud computing)... anyway it gives you functionality of the app still running, but with no battery usage... the disadvantage is that you need to have a data connection for it to work... but for something like an IM/IRC client, you need a data connection anyway :-)

Mmm.. kinda understand.  I think that's how AT&Ts OGO use to work and one of the reasons they stopped support for OGO though. :-(  One of my favorite devices of all time.  Same thing though, it had IM that ran on their servers and you connected to their server sort of thing.  All basically transparent.  Except sometimes it stayed logged into your AIM, MSN, Yahoo even though you weren't on.  Then people would think you were on, but never responding.  It didn't have IRC though.

Yes, sort of... except if someone sends you a message your iPhone will alert you in much the same way as an SMS does.

Anyway, this is a great idea... that Apple have Beta, but not not for masses yet... and they are three months late :-(

So can anyone write on IRC app and have access to these servers of theirs?

Yes, Apple provide a standard API to your app can use the Push service for whatever  it needs, it doesn't have to be an IM/IRC client... could be anything that needs background processing.

[Trev]

Quote:
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Semi-related question: does anyone see value in an iTunes-compatible (read: iPod software clone) audio player for Amiga-like systems? Not sure how connectivity would work, but I'm thinking along the lines of using mDNS to locate local iTunes libraries.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Would be fun, are there any open source ones that could be ported?

There are commercial iTunes implementations that could be reverse engineered and reimplemented (without infringing upon patents, natch) for interoperability. Could be tricky, though, as the courts have not been kind to the interoperability crowd, regardless of their intent. Apple doesn't want competing software to have access to purchased iTunes content.

Yes, Apple provide a standard API to your app can use the Push service for whatever it needs, it doesn't have to be an IM/IRC client... could be anything that needs background processing.

Which is probably why it's delayed. Apple, too, does not want Widgety Guy computing pi or folding proteins on its cloud just so iPhone customers can feel good about their standing in the unit processing race.

[adolescent]

Trev wrote:
@adolescent

Which is why I said Microsoft must be getting stingy with their SKUs. The compiler itself still supports the various architectures. Microsoft must have decided not to sell Windows Mobile 6.x for anything than ARM (and probably x86 for testing).

That's because the compiler is for any Windows Embedded Compact device, not just Windows Mobile.  AFAIK, Windows Mobile has been ARM only from the beginning.  Not stingy... standard.

[Trev]

That's because the compiler is for any Windows Embedded Compact device, not just Windows Mobile. AFAIK, Windows Mobile has been ARM only from the beginning. Not stingy... standard.

And every other edition of Windows, excepting the 16-bit stuff. (Although you can still produce 16-bit code with the latest version of MASM and link DOS executables with the last version of LINK.EXE from ftp.microsoft.com.)

Since they share the same codebase, I tend to think of them as being the same thing, in the same way that Windows NT/2000/XP/2003/Vista/2008/7 are the same thing, albeit with changes to the base feature set (and, d'oh, the dropping of support for Alpha, MIPS, and PowerPC) over the years.

None of that changes my original point, though. :-) If I were developing for the WinCE kernel, I wouldn't limit myself to a single device profile or SKU.

[gertsy]

Can't see what's wrong with my Motorola Dyna TAC 8000. Sure the Red LED display in not as trendy as backlit LCD but you can't have everything.
 :-P

[bloodline]

gertsy wrote:
Can't see what's wrong with my Motorola Dyna TAC 8000. Sure the Red LED display in not as trendy as backlit LCD but you can't have everything.
 :-P

:lol:

A couple of months ago I sat my iPhone 3G next to my Nokia 5110 (my first mobile) and thought about how far we have come in the last 9 years!

[Trev]

@bloodline

Add a dock port compatible mass-spec, and the iPhone becomes a tricorder. Of course, it couldn't automagically transfer the whole of an alien civilization's literary works (plus an artificialy-preserved lifeform or two) to internal memory, but it would still be pretty cool.