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Author Topic: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?  (Read 3287 times)

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Offline redrumloaTopic starter

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Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« on: July 26, 2006, 05:09:05 AM »
Guys, I want your opinions. I've already ordered quality cat6, recepts, patch cables etc. What I am considering now are the gigabit desktop cards & switch and/or router.

I was about to buy some cheapos from Compusa online:

This switch and these adapters.

What I'm starting to ponder is there anything I'm missing to why I should not go cheap on these? Not having done a buttload of research, I'm wondering if these may be substandard product? I can certainly find much pricier parts. Anyone have experience going gigabit?

I'm hoping my RR-Net doesn't freak out when confronted with a gigabit network ;-)
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Offline adz

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2006, 06:55:25 AM »
IMO, cheap isn't always bad, assuming of course this is all for home use. The only thing I wouldn't have wasted my time with is Cat6, downunder, its very expensive and must be run in a certain way, otherwise it performs no better than Cat5e.
 

Offline seer

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2006, 07:55:39 AM »
Had some (wel a lot) of bad experiences with Cisco switches (ports died etc) so I kinda doubt that a cheaper maker would be any worse or better.. I'm not so fond of their routers at the moment either..

But why go giga ? Any  reason ?
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Offline Ilwrath

Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2006, 11:53:20 AM »
Well, with the card, the only concern I'd see is that maybe the drivers wouldn't be up to par.  I always like Intel and 3COM because you know they'll be well supported in Win32/Win64/Linux/whatever.  Other than that, I've largely found a card is a card.

As for the switch...   Should be fine, unless for some reason you need/want advanced management features.  Personally, I'm a geek, and enjoy the finer-grained options a managed switch allows for.  But managed gigabit switches are still damn expensive.

Looks like a pretty good compromise to me.  (shrug)
 

Offline Tahoe

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2006, 12:06:41 PM »
As far as switches go; I have opted for a Linksys which hasn't yet let me down.
As far as cards go; unfortunatly there really is a difference. Both in CPU usage and performance. I started out with realtek based cards (much like the one you refer to), but switched them later for Intel cards. They give me better performance and a (much) lower CPU usage when copying large files.
Intel cards cost about twice as much here as realtek based ones; I needed only 4 which made the whole thing do-able...
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Offline redrumloaTopic starter

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2006, 03:47:49 PM »
Quote

seer wrote:
But why go giga ? Any  reason ?


I did my old FL house with cat 5 and 100Mbit equipment. I found the speed to be quite slow for our usage. This new house has nothing, and WiFi sure as s*** aint gonna do it! Pissing me off actually :angry: So.. I'm going to spend a few extra bucks to go gigabit instead of 100Mbit :-)
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Offline Ilwrath

Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2006, 04:04:28 PM »
Quote
I did my old FL house with cat 5 and 100Mbit equipment. I found the speed to be quite slow for our usage.


Wow.... What were you doing?  The only time I started running into noticible slowing at 100Mbit was at a mid-sized LAN party I threw.  ~8 people pulling down 600MByte patch images and cross-sharing files between ultra high-end machines (the slowest tipping the scale at 2.8Ghz).  Overwhelmed the switch I had, and we had lots of problems.

Might you have had some auto-detect errors on your hardware?  I had to force most NICs to 100/Full on my old switch.  It was a crapshoot what would happen if you left both the switchport and the NIC as "Autodetect".  THAT'LL hurt performance, for sure!  I wonder if you were having a similar issue...  
 

Offline BinoX

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2006, 05:13:09 PM »
Did u know that gigabit works fine over Cat5e.. (It's made to) Please note the "e" on the end...

Cat6 (last time I checked anyway) wasn't even an official standard but companies make it anyway..

If you're gunna network out yer house I'd use Cat5e cable and some 3com/netgear switches...

That's what I got set up here..
I'm using Intel Pro 1000/M network adapters in all my machines... but cheaper ones should do the job just as well...
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Offline redrumloaTopic starter

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2006, 05:34:42 PM »
Quote
Wow.... What were you doing?


To be sure wasn't every day I'd saturate a 100Mbit network, but when I did, it was annoyingly slow :-) It's not unusual for us to have 5-6 computers on the network. Besides what you mentioned (3-4+ computers trying to transfer Q3 update at once), we share BIG files across the network. Stream movies, host MAME games on one computer and play on others. Even some MAME roms are big, makes it slow to launch from another on the network.

I'll tell you what was really slow.. 10Mbit from an Amiga.. If I buy another compatible it will be a Pegasos II(or III)..
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Offline redrumloaTopic starter

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2006, 05:37:09 PM »
@BinoX

Yes I did consider cat 5e. I decided against it since running gigabit across cat 5e is pushing it's limits. That is fine for now, but not future proof. The cat 6 goodies I bought were not much more than the cat 5e counterparts, so it wasn't too difficult of a choice :-)
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Offline BinoX

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2006, 05:45:24 PM »
Fair enough... If I was doing it again I'd actually use fibre to link my 2 switches together then use Cat6 from there for long links and cat5e for shorter links (same room connections)..

As it was.. We had a million boxes of cat5e at work, so I just took one of them when I did my house.. a lot easier than paying...

I even managed to get a friend of mine to get me 100m of sheilded Cat5e for running a network lead down to the garage under ground :)

I must say though, I like netgear switches a lot, and if u have any trouble their tech support team is very helpful (Had a 48 port gigabit switch go down on us not too long ago and they shipped out a replacement straight away) :)
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Offline Argo

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2006, 08:10:37 PM »
1Gbit network with a 5Mbit RR downlink...  :-P

I know what you mean. With large files on a 100Mbit network, go make a sandwich. Though I wish RoadRunner was faster... and or not shared.
 

Offline alewis

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2006, 10:26:31 PM »
Spend a bit of money. Its worthwhile in the medium to long term.

A damm good semi-managed switch is the Dell PowerConnect 2716; 16 port, *real* full wire-speed switching fabric, and very reasonably priced.

Beware any cheap gig switch that claims it is full wire-speed, and not full-wire speed fabric. The difference in wording is subtle, the difference in performance can be staggering. The former is a cleverly worded ad/marketing claim based on the bandwidth of any single port, and any port-to-port transfer. The later is the bandwidth between all ports. If you take a switch based on the former, lets say 8 ports, and run 8 PCs off it, 4 transfering to the other 4, throughput will drop dramatically. The later model, throughput will remain reasonably constant.

The Dell is "manageable" via a web interface, though I am *sure* (suspicious, very suspicious) it has some SNMP in there.

Its bloody good, and very cheap. £125 in the UK, though I paid only £85 for mine :-) Dell will negotiate if you know how.

And its good. Damm good. Just as good as any Cisco I've used (several thousand...).

Netgear is not bad. They are aimed squarely at the SOHO market, make no bones. But they are very reasonable for the price. Non-manageable until you spend a fair bit if money, but good workhorses. I've sorta bonced between Netgear and Cisco at home for the last 10 years, from 100mb hubs (!) to switchs, ISDN router. My second dsl runs off a netgear DG834GT. Last year added a "cheap" 5 port Gig switch. Not bad. It coped reasonably well, but obviously not as well as the Dell and Cisco kit under a full network load. But until I got me mitts on the Dell, it was what I would recommend for home use given Cisco tends to be out of most peoples reach - and configuring IOS is not something for the home user!

However, the low cost NG does *not* support port bonding, VLANs, etc. These may not be important now, but might limit you in future. Cisco does, as does the Dell (I cant be 100% sure as I use the Cisco for channel bonding to the servers and fibre switch)

Cards.

Dont skimp. Cheap cards = LOADSA problems. In order of preference, I'd say Intel, Intel, and Intel. If you settle for a Netgear switch, consider Netgear cards. They often run promotions, such as buy the switch and a card is thrown in free. They run well together. I also use Netgear wireless NICs, paired to the DG834, on one PC and laptop. Forced to really, as the 108mb mode is really NG specific.

But if you can, get the Intel gig cards. They cost a bit more, but offer better performance and lower CPU usage. Much lower. And they work well with just about anything, certainly very very well with Cisco and Dell switches, even the NG gig switch.

Chap cards have crap drivers, high utilisation (sometimes 20%!!! wtf!) and sometimes don't p;ay well in a mixed infrastructure. Also, many omit "vital" features such as QOS, packet tagging, etc. Again, maybe not important, but if you want to split the logical network or prioritise traffic, then vital features.

Also remember; Gige has a theoretical throughput of 125mb/sec, which just happens to be the theoretical max bandwidth of the standard 32bit/33MHz PCI bus. Due to overhead, you'll never get that on either, but the PCI bus is lethal, given that the hard disk needs to access it to, as does the CPU, and occasionally memory. So disk-to-disk across the network can be impacted. Do you have any PCI-X slots in your machines? If so, consider the Intel PCI-X adaptors. A little more money, but the impact is hugely noticeable. (and for the unwshed, PCI-X is backwards compatible with legacy PCI to a point).

Summary. Spend a little more, and mitigate downstream headscratching, headaches, and frustration.
 

Offline alewis

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 10:29:48 PM »
@redrumloa

Did you not consider sticking an old machine in as a caching proxy?

I did this when about 6 months after building first home network and getting pissed at downloading patches on multile machines, then downloading and burning to CD, then downloading and installing from one. Heck, especially with auto-upate on XP, it makes updates fast, smooth, and means my connection is free for usage as opposed to "machine maintenance"
 

Offline AltRN8

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Re: Going gigabit ethernet, cheap or expensive hardware?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2006, 12:06:00 AM »
So I like you started out my hunt just recently in the cheaper end of  gig-e. I happen to work at a pretty top notch tech university so I had quite a few experts at hand to discuss this with.

Going cheap is not bad if you aren't looking for more than some relatively fast transfers but if you are interested in any sort of expansion later on or are worried about preserving QoS for voip or anything, for a little but more you can get pretty decent switches for a moderate price.

I went with Dell's powerconnect switches. The 16 port managed gig-e switch is only 80 dollars and lacks only jumbo frame support which for many is not a big deal.

The management options are pretty good but it is limited by having only a web interface to control it.

I am planning on doing a lot of voip stuff and create vlans for a lot of my machines so it was the right choice for me. If I had gone cheap I would have paid later to patchwork it together so I am glad I went whole hog right now.

It really is need driven. What are you going to do now and what are you planning to do later. If all you need is to alleviate sporadic network floods from large transfers going cheap is the way to go.