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Author Topic: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!  (Read 735 times)

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Offline mgericsTopic starter

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Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« on: August 30, 2005, 08:16:06 PM »
Well, I guess I screwed myself this time.
Nutshell:
1. I ruined an engine by mistakenly mixing anti-freeze types - no one's fault but mine.
2. Friend suggested I take it to company, the name of which I won't reveal, but the initials of the company name are the same, very near the beginning of the alphabet and the business is located on Saginaw Road north of Clio, MI and south of Birch Run, MI, albeit a bit closer to Clio (one could say it was actually in Clio, but I think it might fault outside the city limits. But I digress)
3. I towed this vehicle to this business with a CHAIN, using a Lumina van (which subsequently suffered rear suspension damage because of said action-D'OH!)
4. I explained to the owner/mechanic that I had low coolant, put some in, the car overheated, I put more in, the car quit and would not turn over, there was no action, almost as if the starter had seized. He immediately got into the vehicle and tried to turn it over, same result as I had, not a bit of motion from the thing.
5. Few days later he called, said the mixed anti-freeze had turned to sludge and mentioned a condition called hydrolocked. I wasn't sure, but was fairly certain that this meant 'water' in the engine in places it didn't belong - mind you , I'm no engine mechanic, but I can at least replace an alternator/water pump/ things of that nature. He said it was PROBABLY the heads, and I signed a work order based on HIS recommendation; he's supposed to be the expert, after all.
6.*AFTER*  buying heads and replacing them, he discovered that the engine was seized. Fine. Except that he expected me to pay for his labor and parts. I told him to find an engine and replace it; he decided not to until I paid for what he had already done.
7. Called him to dispute the charges, and he said that I had told him, and he had witnesses, ( [supposedly when I first contacted him]  was on the phone, so his witnesses only heard him speak directly) that I had taken it somewhere else and had it diagnosed, then took it to him to get the work done. (I'm going to tow a vehicle place to place with a chain and a Lumina? Okay, some might, but I'm not THAT much of a hillbilly [no offence to people of that nature!])
8. Spoke to a lawyer, who told me that since the signed work order was fairly specific, I was screwed.

Naturally, I am pi**ed, but I am a firm believer in the law; I sighned a contract (mis-spelling of SIGNED is on purpose!) and am thus liable for it. I might not like it, but the same thing would protect me if a similar thing happened and the tables were turned (i.e. someone signed a contract that I provided)

The points that grind me are:
1. He suggested what the problem MIGHT be, or otherwise what he thought it was.
2. I'm no mechanic (I have replaced an engine or two in my time, but that didn't require getting into the internals of the engine itself), but even *I* know that loss of coolant/cooling ability can seize an engine.

As a professional of ANY kind, I'd like to think someone would be honest, and *FULLY DIAGNOSE* a problem PRIOR to buying parts. I expect to pay at least some hourly fee for diagnosis, heck everyplace in the universe does it. It has been 5 months But he also insisted I pay storage for all the days it sat on his lot. (It sits outside, and doesn't appear to be taking up too much space, but then, I'm no expert and don't run a storage facility)

So, I agree I shouldn't have signed the work order, but it's in my nature to trust (yes, you can sell me the Brooklyn Bridge). My bad!

What really grinds me is the gall he has to lie. I never, in any way, shape or form told him it had been diagnosed elsewhere and that it was the heads as he insists I did. HE was the one who brought that up, and I know enough about cars to suspect he was telling the truth. And even if I had said that - as a professional,he owed it to me to verify that fact, either by finding out what agency did this alleged (<- man, I hate that word) diagnosis, or verifying the veracity of said statement. I'd already told him I could replace an alternator, but had no penchant for internal maintenance.

His arguments were that the heads got ruined because I mixed coolant types (DING DING DING - loss of coolant can seize an engine) which caused the engine to seize. Then he proceeded to tell me he couldn't have 'known' the engine was seized (he couldn't have even suspected, having already been told the history of what happened?) Going with HIS original diagnosis, he apparently couldn't tell if the engine was 'hydrolocked' without pulling the heads. Hmm, let me see. Spark plugs are screwed into the tops of the heads, right? How long does it take to pull 6 (six) plugs. If there is fluid in the cylinders that can't go anywhere (basic physics, fluids don't compress, which is why hydraulics are so useful in heavy machinery) wouldn't the holes for the plugs have relieved the blockage that a hydrolocked condition attempts to overcome?

So, I feel misled and cheated but mostly hurt. I could accept the responsibility for signing the darn paper, it's the darn lie he maintains that I told him it was the heads. Never happened. Period. HE mentioned the heads to ME .

Comments?

p.s. I havn't the money to pay him, having been layed off this summer, so he wins - I sign the title over to him today.

p.p.s. I notice he ALWAYS seems to have a car or two for sale in front of his shop. Wonder where he gets 'em?
 

Offline PMC

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 10:18:35 PM »
Was it a franchised dealer?  You could go back to the manufacturer's customer care department and explain the issue to them.

Otherwise, you could pay for some of the work that's been done, park the car out front of the dealership and post large signs in the window explaining the background to your grieveance.  Nothing hurts bent garages more than bad publicity.
Cecilia for President
 

Offline X-ray

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2005, 10:33:54 PM »
I can only hope that the same thing happens to him. One day maybe an unscrupulous dentist will tell him he needs four fillings (when he doesn't) and will do a crap job to boot. I know how that one feels, a Dorset dentist pulled that stunt on me in late 1991 before I did my radiography training. I had pain in both upper and lower pairs of molars and the {bleep}er said I had four gaping cavities that needed filling. He did that and the fillings plagued me (in the end I lost two of those teeth, the other two piss me off still). And do you know what the real reason was that I had that pain?
Wisdom teeth!!
Ja, I found this out when the pain didn't subside and I was back in JHB starting my course two months after the fillings. An X-ray proved it (the Dorset {bleep} also X-rayed me but 'missed' the real diagnosis). So I got myself four fillings all at once, for nothing, and I still had to have the wisdoms surgically removed.
Hopefully your mechanic and my previous dentist get marooned on a desert island together. People like that aren't even worth a paper bag full of piss.
 

Offline metalman

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2005, 03:41:46 AM »
Don't mix the green, silicate-type antifreeze with orange antifreeze. The organic acids in orange types will cause separation of silicates in the green type, which greatly reduces corrosion protection.


Car Radiator Coolants Information


Mixing the antifreeze types should not have been the problem, it still cools, however it allows corrosion to occur, but that takes a long time to happen.

If you were constantly having to add coolant with no visible sign of a water leak, and the oil level was over full when you checked it (coolant leaking to crankcase). Water in the crankcase oil results in a frozen engine. The mechanic should have checked for frozen engine before he ordered the heads!
Lan astaslem
The Peacemaker
 

Offline adz

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2005, 08:11:42 AM »
Sounds a tad dodgy to me, not entirely sure what you can do in this situation, all I can say is that I hope it eventually works out for you. Is the car insured at all?? Because if it is, you can always liberally spray it with petrol and then strike a match :evilgrin: Just don't get caught...
 

Offline PMC

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2005, 04:49:49 PM »
I'd never condone insurance fraud, but ADZ's idea sounds pretty promising to me.  My advice would be to remove the brake disks / pads, radiator, wiper motors, cat converter, fuel pumps, power steering pump etc before signing it over, they Ebay the lot.

Otherwise, here's a heartwarming tale courtesy of a friend of mine who got royally screwed over.

He bought a Japanese import Nissan Pulsar GTI-R a few years back but was moving abroad so decided to sell it.  His mechanic also had a business selling cars and suggested he buy the Pulsar off my mate for £1100, explaining that because of the amount of Japanese performance cars imported into Britain the bottom had fallen out of the market and as he knew my mate he'd make a generous cash offer.

Two days later the Pulsar was up on a forecourt for £5,000.  My mate was royally pissed until the phone rang:

Mechanic: "Erm, thought you should know that your Pulsar was stolen from my forecourt last night.  You didn't have an immobilizer fitted did you?"

(note, a good number of Japanese imports don't meet the usual European security standards and require further modification after import.  My mate lived in a relatively safe area and neglected to get this done).

Mate: "No."

Mechanic: "Well, seeing as I bought it thinking it was immobilised and have lost out on the sale, can I have my money back?"

Mate: "Get f*cked" (puts phone down).

:lol:
Cecilia for President
 

Offline X-ray

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2005, 06:50:11 PM »
Yes! I like that!
 

Offline adz

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2005, 11:24:59 PM »
Quote

PMC wrote:

I'd never condone insurance fraud, but ADZ's idea sounds pretty promising to me.


Neither do I condone it, but in this case...I suppose he could always pay some smackhead low life piece'o'crap $50 to do it for him.

Anyway, lets just hope something nasty happens to mgerics mechanic, nothing like karma.
 

Offline FluffyMcDeath

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Re: Rats, or Caveat Emptor, Or Be Careful who you trust!
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 05:53:35 AM »
He sounds like a conman.
This is a case where an expert witness or two could help out.
His diagnosis is bogus and a competent mechanic on the stand should be able to point that out. Thing is, he probably knows it and that's why he is saying it was diagnosed elsewhere. He says he has witnesses to that effect and he probably does have a couple of friends who'll say so for him.
You could find a couple of witnesses of your own and make it a "his word against yours" deal. That could expose you to perjury though.
Better would be to show his diagnosis was maliciously wrong and expose his "witness" as a liar. If you were tricked into a contract you can fight it.
But you will have to sue for money. Just defending yourself won't pay for the legal bills. You need someone who will take a cut of the sttlement and then you go after the mechanic for about two to three hundred thousand dollars.
Those lawyers exist. If it's in your charater, play mean. Chances are he'll just not want to bother with the fight and go after another easy mark.