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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« on: November 07, 2003, 12:20:16 AM »
edit: I was wrong!

The debate is though, whether the word becomes part of the language that adopts it. I (personally) think its a bit anally retentive to look at the endings in the original language. I mean, should we really go around saying viri instead of viruses?

edit again: Am I just feeding a troll here while people sit back and watch?:-(
 
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2003, 12:44:50 AM »
:lol:
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2003, 09:58:04 AM »
@ Methuselas

I think its YOU that's displaying the ignorance. For a start, when America rebelled, England had a king. Therefore the US, would've been rebelling against King's English, if such a term existed then, which I doubt very much.

Secondly, the revising of English spelling (in the US) has been attributed to Noah Webster, and to a lesser degree, Mark Twain (although I gather this can still be debated).  Also, don't forget spelling was non-standardized, and only became so when people decided to write dictionaries (even in print it is inconsistent - writers like Shakespeare spelled words many different ways).

The us of z in standardize, realize etc is perfectly good British English spelling. Many people use s instead, but the older z variation is acceptable (I tend to use it because I prefer it). The suggestion that people in the US used different spellings as a form of rebellion is just ridiculous.
It is far more likely they use them because scholars like Webster believed them to be superfluous. The reason that the Us exist in such words as colour is due to the fact that they came in to English from French cf couleur, for example.

English is not created from 'butchered' words. English is a rich hotch-potch of languages. That is why we have such a large vocabulary (in fact, I believe it is the largest vocabulary in the world). The biggest contributors to the pot are Gaelic, Latin, Norse, French, Old English (which is one of the West Germanic languages, like Dutch, modern German, Frisian etc), the old Scandanavian languages (which are now Danish and Swedish, Icelandic, Faroese etc). We also have more recent influences, from languages such as Urdu, Hindustani, Punjabi etc

I think you just wanted to use your post to attack the British posters in this forum, rather than have some kind of discussion about language.
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2003, 10:09:45 AM »
Back to the original topic, both spellings of plurals are acceptable. I just think that to argue that we must used 'fora' 'because its Latin' is ridiculous IMO.

Are we to decline nouns if they have roots in languages with cases? Are we to conjugate verbs that have been imported in to English, just because they do in the original language?

Language is a constantly evolving phenomenon - it 'belongs' to nobody. I get sick of people saying that the Americans can't spell words properly. English does not belong to the English people! It's spoken by  between 320 and 380 million people worldwide as a first language, 150-300 million as a second or significant language (in India, Pakistan, Hong Kong, Singapore etc), and by a rough estimate of 100 million to a billion as a language that people know to a small extent. [These figures are estimates taken from Harmer, the Practice of English Language Teaching]

One of the prices British people must pay for English being a global language is that it isn't ours anymore - its everybody's.




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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2003, 02:04:03 PM »
Quote

JaXanim wrote:
'The way he speaks is quite different than you and I'

Who thinks this is OK?
Who thinks it is not OK?

JaX


I think this is not OK
'than' is used in comparative sentences
[comparative adjectives are better, bigger, more intelligent, smaller etc]
So my computer is better than your computer (for example) is acceptable

'Quite different':
Different is not a comparative adjective here, so cannot be used with 'than'

Sorry, now I'm being anally retentive - but it is my job after all!
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2003, 02:34:52 PM »
Quote
My point is that this all comes down to communication, and someone said it already... The point is to be understood.


hear hear! I agree
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2003, 03:23:17 PM »
Careful Jax - generalising (or is it generalizing ;-))

I used to live with an American, and I'm sure she said 'different from' and 'different to'...
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2003, 04:32:58 PM »
@ Jax

Michael Swan - Practical English Usage,2nd Ed, Oxford
p150

Quote

158 different

   1  Modifiers
   
   2  Prepositions

       From is generally used after different; many          
       British people also use to. In American English,  
       than is common.
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2003, 06:26:00 PM »
@ Methuselas

I apologize - I must have misunderstood you
I've given up both smoking and drinking within the space of two weeks and I'm VERY tetchy and stressed at the moment, not that that's any excuse....
I do have a habit of getting offended at things when they aren't meant to offend. I must admit I feel like a bit of an ass now  :-o .
I'll join you in a virtual pint ;-) :pint: Cheers!

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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2003, 06:39:03 PM »
I thought you might pick that up...

No, ass!
As in the thing with the droopy ears and the hooves  ;-)
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2003, 06:22:30 AM »
@ Epyx

Or we could just say that all the European languages are related anyway (well, apart from the Finno-Ugric or Altaic languages) :-)

----------------

I don't see why some people, like sir_inferno, feel the need to get people's backs up anyway. I love languages, they are one of my passions. I love the nuances of each language! Far from wanting to get involved in petty squabbles about which is better, I'd rather just learn more languages. In fact, I should spend more time doing that than posting on here!

I am currently trying to teach myself Dutch and Estonian, I learned Russian at university, French and Latin at school, a very good friend of mine teaches me bits of Lithuanian when we get together in London for a drink (bah, non-alcoholic now of course)  and I can tell you, the impression I get of languages is that they are like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle - the more pieces you have the easier it is to see the picture...  
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Offline Cyberus

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Re: behaviour (bad)
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2003, 09:55:16 AM »
edit: Removed something which was unnecessarily rude. However it wasn't as quoted below - what I said was in Italian
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