Who owns AmigaOS?

[cgutjahr]

@number6:

Please stop linking to tmhg postings, my head hurts.

@all:

The situation is like this: If Gateway ever properly acquired AmigaOS (there are doubts about this, see inquisitor's excellent "Amiga Docs" report), and if we pretend that the current incarnation of Amiga Inc. can indeed provide all the paperwork to prove that the AmigaOS rights were properly transfered from Gateway to them somehow (Hyperion itself made quite some interesting points about that particular story before they settled with AInc), the settlement between Amiga and Hyperion defines the current situation like this:

Amiga Inc. owns AmigaOS 3.1. They did, however, license most of the things you can do with a software product to Hyperion - exclusively. Amiga might own the OS, but they're not allowed to call it "AmigaOS" and they're only allowed to use it in places nobody will ever get to see it (like an Amiga-in-a-joystick remake, that's mentioned as an example in the settlement). They're not even allowed to license it to a third party (only Hyperion has that priviledge). The settlement always refers to "AmigaOS 3.1". It is unclear - to me, at least - if this means "this particular version of AmigaOS" or "all versions of AmigaOS up until 3.1". I tend to assume the latter.

Hyperion has an (exclusive) license to distribute, modify, market etc. AmigaOS (not just OS4, we're talking AmigaOS in general). They have an (exclusive) license to call it AmigaOS. And they do own AmigaOS 4 - except for the code parts that are still left over from AmigaOS 3.1, obviously. They also have an (exclusive) license to the term "AmigaOne".

The settlement also contains a clause that stops Amiga from competing with Hyperion in the OS departement. I assume that's why Hyperion alleges that Amiga can't license the "Amiga" name to CUSA if the latter are distributing AROS - because that would actually be competition.

The "Workbench" trademark has been registered in the US by Cloanto years ago - Amiga are trying to stop the registration from becoming valid. This particular litigation is still going on, but Amiga's performance matches those in their previous legal disputes (i.e. it's abysmal). Let's wait and see who wins that one.

(Edit: Added info that AInc can not license AmigaOS to other parties).

[cgutjahr]

You are mostly only repeating what I said, but in other words.

Good thing you're repeating it one more time then.

The settlement both refers to Amiga OS 3.1 (the software), and OS4. What do you think is unclear?

It refers to "AmigaOS 3.1". Does that include older versions, i.e. AmigaOS 1.3? That question isn't directed at you, just something I'm not 100% sure about.

Now, who owns the house?

I'm sorry, but you don't get it - and please stop with the house comparisons. Hyperion has a product called AmigaOS 4. They own it. They're the ones who distribute, advertise and sell it.

This product is made of a lot of single components - none of which are owned by Hyperion, as far as we know. They licensed ExecSG from the Friedens (allegedly), they licensed the new DOS from Tony Wyatt, they licensed the TCP stack from Olaf Barthel and they licensed some old code from Amiga.

We're talking about the software business, not buildings.

Not Hyperion, not Amiga Inc. They both exclusively owns their respective components in the house,

I know you're going to go all nuts about what I'm going to say now, but I can't resist:

For whatever reason, the settlement uses a lot of words to first state that AInc still own AmigaOS and then declare that all of the rights usually associated with owning something are exclusively and indefinitely licensed to Hyperion.

AInc 'owns' AmigaOS 3.1, but they're not allowed to...

- call it AmigaOS 3.1
- modify it
- license it to some third party
- sell it (unless they bundle it with "gaming content" and hide it from the customer's eyes)

while Hyperion is allowed to do all of those things (Hyperion is even allowed to persecute alleged copyright infringements on its own).

While it is legally wrong to claim that Hyperion owns AmigaOS, for all practical purposes, they can act like they own it.

But you must understand that Amiga Inc and Commodore USA *is not the same entity*, each responsible for their own actions, *but not for the others*.

Correct. That's why Hyperion threatened legal action against AInc, not CUSA.

[cgutjahr]

Actually, the house example isn't that bad!

Yes it is. The only thing that would be worse would be a book analogy.

Another example then; two authors writes a book together;

Oh my. Let's talk about cars instead. Car analogies rule.

Add to that that *Hyperion's contribution is merely add-ons and improvements* to "the software"

Hyperion consists of 1-3 managers, Hyperion didn't make any "contributions" to AmigaOS. 3rd party contractors did.

In fact, Hyperion have no control or influence at all over a situation where the IP might be sold...

"The IP", i.e. the product that the buyer of said IP can't name, modify or sell to end users? Correct, Hyperion can't control that. I don't think that bothers them too much.

(for the duration of the contract, to be more exact)

I.e. indefinitely.

And then the corporate entity "Amiga Inc" could then simply be terminated, along with Hyperion's "right to use" contract.

That's just bogus. Obviously, Amiga Inc can only sell what they have - rights to the IP which are licensed exclusively to Hyperion (e.g. the trademark "AmigaOS", the right to modify AmigaOS sources etc.) can not be sold to a third party.

Pluritas ... is currently accepting offers to acquire the worldwide rights to the AMIGA trademarks and associated intellectual property

Yeah, there you can buy AmigaOS, but without the right to call it AmigaOS, without the right to modify it and without the right (more or less) to sell it to end users. Sounds like a hell of an opportunity to me.

[cgutjahr]

Again, the "loan-contract" (for it is a loan, not ownership) can only live as long as the entities who signed it is alive (or it's revoked in another way).

Please go and read the agreement again. It contains a clause that prohibits transfer of the contract without Hyperions consent, It contains detailed rules how a 3rd party buying "stock or assets" has to comply with the agreement otherwise the purchase is deemed invalid - it even contains forms to be filled out by any potential purchaser. And last but not least, the agreement specifies exactly how a bancruptcy of any of the "Amiga parties" would have to be handled. The agreement even states that Hyperion is now a "secured creditor" of the Amiga parties, and specifies how/what/when Hyperion is allowed foreclosure.

IANAL, so this might all be bogus and not worth the paper it's written on. I can't judge that (and, tbh, I don't even care anymore) - but I'm pretty sure you can't either.

[cgutjahr]

You really don't have a clue as to what you are actually saying when you type a post do you.

The topic of this thread is the ownership of AmigaOS. If you don't want to discuss that, it would be polite to stay out of the thread. And cut down on the insults somewhat, will you?