Support for new TV card models: MM CD Update 1.26

[tjaoz]

@Acill

Yeah it seems Elbox doesnt care much for new hardware support.

They do not care for the new hardware support?  
What is this news about then?

If they would just allow OpenPCI to work on the Mediator we would have so many great drivers.

Really?
According to some people (redrumloa) even the simple RTL8139 100Mbps OpenPCI driver does not work stable in Pegasos. Or is redrumloa lying us?
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11488

The Pegasos can use many ATI cards, SCSI cards, TV cards, SB Live! cards, and so many more.

What does Pegasos have to do with this news?

BTW. What ATI models have 3D support under current Morphos? Are there any? Where can I find the list of TV cards supported in Pegasos under Morphos?

[tjaoz]

@@Trev

A little Amiga-esque irony: The Mediator 3dfx drivers are almost certainly based on stolen intellectual property. 3dfx was long gone before the Mediator was released, and I don't recall Nvidia starting a 3dfx licensing program.

It is incorrect, Trev.
Mediator was released long months before 3dfx was gone.

It takes only a few minutes to check in the Web when Mediator was released and when 3dfx was gone:
http://www.elbox.com/news_00_06_08.html
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_20010612_6602.html

I'm sure you should check it for yourself instead of writing untrue things here.

Did Elbox ever announce an agreement with Nvidia? My guess is that Elbox used the leaked 3dfx source code as a starting point.)

You really think that companies announce in public signing every single NDA?
Or you just want to troll here a bit?

BTW. Are you a Mediator user? I guess you are not. You are probably only an anti-Mediator Troll.

[tjaoz]

@Trev

The Mediator PCI 1200 shipped in September 2000, just three months before Nvidia's acquisition of 3dfx was announced. 3dfx had been in decline for quite some time, and Nvidia would have been working with 3dfx on acquisition details well before an official announcement was made.

Elbox had also to work on drivers before the Mediator release.

Anyway, first were the Mediator 2D drivers for Voodoo, and only then Nvidia took over 3dfx. Voodoo 3 was one of the best PCI graphic card at that time. Nothing strange that Elbox chose Voodoo 3.

3dfx stopped licensing its technology after the release of the Voodoo 2. They were especially closelipped about Glide, their 3D API, and quite reticent with regard to their software and hardware interface in general.

Why would 3dfx break with tradition and license their technology to Elbox? I just don't see it happening.

As you are reffering to 3dfx Glide and their 3D API, you should know that Voodoo3 3D drivers for Mediator were written by Hyperion, not by Elbox.
 
Are you saying then, that Hyperion Voodoo3 drivers "are almost certainly based on stolen intellectual property?" :-o

And really, this isn't trolling. It's just an open discussion. It's not like I'm proclaiming the v1r7u3s of one PCI solution over another. I'm just criticizing Elbox's abuse of the market and lack of support for current video cards.

If you check the Mediator Driver Guide by Elbox, you will see well over 200 PCI cards supported in Mediator. Why did you choose Elbox to criticise then?

Because they have written many more drivers than other Amiga producers?  

In other news, the SharkPPC will begin production in January 2001

Do you blame Elbox that OS4 is not ready yet? :-o

[tjaoz]

@Trev

I'd like to see support for the Matrox Millennium II (because I have lots of them) and the GeForce 4 MX (because PCI cards based on this chipset are still readily available), but  grassroots development for the Mediator is a lost cause,

Have you forgotten what you wrote in your previous comment? Here it is: "I won't buy a hardware product that doesn't at least sponsor an open (i.e. no NDA required) developer program."

So why do you list here NVidia cards (GeForce 4 MX)?
Give us all a link to the site where documentation for NVidia cards is available without NDA?
Don't you know NVidia is very closed about making the documentation for these cards available?

Graphic card producers often do not make available the proper documentation to their products, but even authors of Amiga systems do not make their documentation available (e.g. CGX, P96 or Warp3D) even if you are willing to sign the NDA. MediatorSDK you can have if you sign NDA with Elbox.

Stop trooling, Trev.
It looks that you have more reasons to complain about NVidia, CGX, P96 or Warp3D Teams than about Elbox. :-)

[tjaoz]

@Kronos

All academic, since there is simply no sane way to make a PPC attached to a PCI-bus access the Amiga-chipset lying behind the Voddoo-RAM-window in an even remotly compatible way.

What you write about is a restriction of  _turbo cards_ for A1200.  When you disconnect the turbo card, these restrictions disappear. Amiga 1200 motherboard allows Direct Memory Access to its hardware, right?
 
If a A1200 turbo card is to remain in place, access to the mainboard chipset can be provided by the 68k processor of the turbo card. Simple additional software for 68k processor can set it as a slave processor providing SharkPPC accesses to the chipset of the A1200 mainboard. Is it so complicated for you?

In Amiga 3000 and 4000 such restrictions do not exists at all, even with the installed current processor card, the PowerPC PCI card has direct access to the mainboard chipset.

[tjaoz]

@Trev

OpenPCI and Picasso96 are closed, and according to the authors, it's because of Elbox.

:lol:  

And those hurricanes attacking America also come from Elbox?

How is it that Picasso 96 team has not made available their documentation since 1996 for developers who want to write drivers for new graphic cards? Is it really because of Elbox?  :-o

And tjaoz, you could play nice and voice your opinions without name calling. I respect your right to your opinion. Please respect mine.

You say it's too few drivers, but you address it to those people who wrote the largest number of drivers.
You say about IP suggesting its theft in writing 3D drivers for Voodoo cards, but you write it against a company who did not write these 3D drivers, etc...

Isn't it trolling, Trev?

With respect to Nvidia, yes they are protective of their intellectual property, and in today's PC graphics market, it's justified.

Go on please...  Some companies are entitled to protect their IP and others are not?

However, information about Nvidia chipsets is readily available in the open source community.

Aha? Give but a single link where NVidia chipset documentation is available.

Isn't it so that drivers for NVidia cards for Linux are prepared _solely_ by NVidia, and their key elements (those, which are responsible for access to chipset registers) are available _only_ as precompiled libraries, without source codes?

Would anyone be interested in a Picasso96 driver for SVGA compatible PCI display adapters? I'd like to write one for both OpenPCI and pci.library and make it open source, but the owners of those three products aren't keen on letting people use their SDKs without $$$, l337 skillz, or an NDA, respectively.

What's your problem?  
According to your own words in your country disassembling is legal under some conditions. So, you do not need to pay or sign anything. Show us your knowledge and prepare one single driver for any graphic chipset, which is not supported in Amiga so far.

Good luck!

[tjaoz]

@Trev

I don't think I mentioned 3D drivers anywhere in my initial comments. You brought it up.

Unfortunately, it is you who mentioned there 3dfx Glide and their 3D API.
See your post of 2004/9/15 21:18 Updated 2004/9/15 22:12

The largest number of drivers? Elbox wrote two, the OpenPCI crew (or someone else--I don't
know who) wrote one. Yes, things are really heating up in the race to provide display drivers for Amiga PCI busboards.

Do you have problems with counting? Elbox wrote two drivers? Check here to see all the available drivers for Mediator.

Objection. Leading the witness. But I'll answer anyway. No, it's not true:
http://cvsweb.xfree86.org/cvsweb/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/nv/

I didn't ask you to give a link to linux sources, but to give but a single link where NVidia chipset
documentation is available. Can you give such a link?

Why are you being such an asshole? Why not try to be helpful instead? Aren't we both Amiga
users? [Putting on my tjaoz hat.] You're obviously just a troll who loves Elbox and doesn't give a {bleep} about anyone other than himself. (Please forgive me if American sarcasm doesn't translate well in your society.)

 
As you wrote, you are not a Mediator user. What is a reason of your anti-Elbox trolling here?

If you have lots of Matrox Millenium II cards and you need drivers for them, get up your ass and write these drivers instead of barking at Elbox. Opsss..., sorry..., it not so easy as trolling here...  :lol:

[tjaoz]

@Trev

You're right, I mentioned 3dfx and their disposition towards Glide; however, I didn't say anything about Warp3D display drivers. You've misinterpreted my statements.

Oh yes? So what Mediator 3dfx drivers if not Warp 3D drivers you had on your mind writing: "The Mediator 3dfx drivers are almost certainly based on stolen intellectual property. [...], and I don't recall Nvidia starting a 3dfx licensing program." and "They were especially closelipped about Glide, their 3D API,[...]?"

English doesn't appear to be your native language, so I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Sure, English is not my native language. But I think that these "misunderstandings" result mostly from the fact that you are not well versed in the issue about which you talk so easily.

Let's see. Voodoo.card (one) and Virge.card (two). It looks like the total is still two display drivers. Perhaps your understanding of the number two is different from mine.

If they put support for all graphic cards for Mediator in one driver and called it Mediatorgraphic.card, would that mean support for one graphic card only? We talk here about the number of supported chipsets (like: VSA-100, Avenger, Banshee, S3 86C375, S3 86C325), not number of driver file names.

You didn't specify the type of documentation.

"Documentation" doesn't mean Linux sources, right? Documentation as a rule is a pretty thick book (electronic or paper) with descriptions of all registers, chipset operation, etc. Who thinks seriously about writing drivers, shouldn't he know what documentation is?

BTW. Asking you again: Can you give a single link where NVidia chipset documentation is available?

I'm criticizing Elbox's lack of support for modern display adapters and their closed developer program.

Elbox produces a PCI busboard, not graphic cards. They wrote such drivers which they wanted. You can equally well criticise the Zorro busboard producer for lack of support for better graphic chipsets than S3 Virge (installed in CyberVision 64 3D).

I'm working on the framework for an open source VGA/SVGA 2D driver right now. Whether or not it gets released depends on the licensing restrictions put in place by Elbox, OpenPCI, and Picasso96.

O!? So you have now those potential guilty of your failure in writing these drivers? Are your skills not taken into account here, Trev?

I'm feeling positive about OpenPCI and Picasso96.

Positive feelings about OpenPCI and Picasso96? Why? Because, unlike Elbox, they have done nothing new so far for users of Amiga PCI busboards?