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Author Topic: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon  (Read 9997 times)

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Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« on: November 17, 2009, 10:48:02 PM »
Quote from: NioByte;529963
As far as I know even if you do have a card that has the correct BIOS version it still will not work under Amiga OS 4.0 Classic.

I am unable to get my ATI Radeon 9200 Pro cards to work under AmigaOS 4.0. I have got a 64 MB and a 128 MB version both do not work.

Basically Amiga OS 4.0 decides to go on an infinite reboot.

Hans-Joerg Frieden (Rogue) has replied on the Amigans.net forums stating that it cannot be done at the moment in the current kernel update for classic 'February 2008' for Amiga OS 4.0 classic.

http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&type=&topic_id=2364&forum=3

Rogue mentioned:
"The Radeon driver in AmigaOS 4 relies on the BIOS to set up the card, so it won't work as-is on the Classic. I'll look into this if we release an update for the Classic version (note the 'if'; I don't know if or when one is planned)."

When 'if' they do plan to release another update, that is on his list of things to do. At the moment OS 4.0 only has compatibility for the use of Radeon cards on the AmigaONE. Amiga OS 4.1 and beyond on the SAM boards has full support of course.

BTW, how did you get the Voodoo 3 and the Ethernet to work under Amiga OS 4.0. I have had no luck with this. I have also posted this elsewhere on these forums: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50242

You can only try the latest Mediator drivers under Amiga OS 4.0
I have had no luck so far getting any of my devices to be recognised under Amiga OS 4.0. Then again I am even having similar issues under Amiga OS 3.9.

Good Luck.



The OS4 beta team is aware of this issue and we have some hardware to test.  I can give no guarantees on the future, but only to tell you that we have notified Hyperion of the situation with the Radeon on classic.  If there is any update to the situation you can be sure it will be posted here.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2009, 06:29:27 AM »
Quote from: Ratte;530458
If .. if .. if ... :P

If Hyperion reatictivated the GRex-Support, it could be a step closer to usable system.
A 233/604 System with direct PCI-bus (GRex) and a Radeon could be fast enough.
Half power of a brandnew SAM :D


My understanding (and I could be wrong, but...) is that at the time of OS4.0 classic development no documentation was available for the GRex PCI board, and thus support was not added.  I have no indication the situation (re: documentation) has changed.

The real problem - on OS4.0 classic is the lack of ram.  Sure you can get by OK by limiting your open programs, but the 128MB limitation on the Cyberstorm PPC does tend to hurt after awhile.  Blizzard users are lucky and can live in the luxury of 256MB ram...not so for us CS PPC users :-)  But OS 4.0 is still fun to use, even in 128MB.  You can still browse the web, listen to internet radio, go on IRC, FTP, etc...

:)
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2009, 06:34:11 AM »
PS - one user has the Elbox Radeon driver working on the A1200/Blizzard PPC with Amiga OS 4.0.  You have to comment out all existing gfx drivers in kicklayout, use a supported Radeon (see Elbox's site), and the version 1.4 of their Radeon driver.  Elbox's PCI.library in libs:, s:vendors.txt, c:pciinfo, devs:monitors/radeon and radeon.info, libs:picasso96/radeon.card  (version 1.4).

Does not seem to work on Cyberstorm, though.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2009, 03:14:52 PM »
@Crumb

I don't think it's a fair statement to say "their pride and ego" prevented scsi support.  Unless you have claims to back that up?

How about politely asking Ralph Schmidt for blizzard ppc scsi documentation?  See what kind of response you get.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2009, 10:51:36 PM »
Quote from: delshay;533329
it maybe possible but will love to try OS4.1 on my system. overclocked Blizzard PPC 321Mhz with 80.333Mhz bus which i do belive is a new record for classic amiga bus speed.


Wow...fast! What does SysSpeed report for PPC MIPS and MFLOPS? ;)
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2010, 07:26:08 AM »
Quote from: pekdar;537906
I think You forget about FastLaneZ3 cards with RAM. I have FastLaneZ3 v2.4 card and I have extra 32MB 60ns more memory on OS3.9. 3 days ago I ordered more simms RAM  with 96MB. So in near future I'll have 128+128 = 256MB on My A4000D. I know that RAM on FastLaneZ3 card i slower from CSPPC memory but it is still much faster from swap file. If OS4 developers could add support for this card, They should do. I agree that Hyperion should add support for swap memory for Classic users especially.

I was referring to OS4 which only supports the 128MB ram on the Cyberstorm PPC itself.  OS4 does not support any other RAM except the 2MB chip ram on the A4000 motherboard.  It even ignores any fast ram installed on the A4000 motherboard itself.

The argument against other ram solutions such as the Fastlane is that it would be too slow. (from the OS4 developers).
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!
 

Offline HammerD

Re: OS4 Classic BPPC/060 A1200 Radeon
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2010, 03:52:38 PM »
Quote from: Crumb;538263
@HammerD

Ralph said Hyperion never asked him any doubt. Hyperion never reported Ralph any problem about his scsi drivers. They never asked him about documentation or help. BTW, I think no documentation would be required, perhaps simply asking him something like "we change these registers to that value like we did on some PCI cards but it doesn't work like it should, do you know if we have to modify any other register to init the scsi correctly?" may be enough.

BTW, they could also take a look at linux APUS, AFAIK BlizzardPPC SCSI works in latest Linux Apus versions.

I don't have to act as a "mediator" since I'm not selling OS4 and since they are the interested party in making OS4 succeed they should ask Ralph for help firstly. If they ever had received a "no" from Ralph I would act as a "mediator" and ask politely to Ralph, but since they don't seem to be interested in making their own OS successful and forgot about classic users I won't waste my time trying to get information about something that won't be released. I bought a copy despiting I had it for free due to betatesting though.

Some people in the dev team liked to claim OS3 scsi drivers were "broken" but they never informed about these "terrible" bugs so Ralph will hardly fix them if you never report them. I guess it's due to OS4 broken virtual memory system not being able to use proper amiga DMA (the same reason most zorro dma cards won't work...). IMHO when everything works and you release an incompatible system that breaks everything that worked without problems, claiming that all amiga dma drivers are broken is kinda funny.


I don't know the reasons why the cybppc.device was developed as it was for OS4.  I know it has to do some magic to get around the embedded cybppc.device in the cyberstorm flashrom so you get about 12-13MB/sec maximum out of it.   On the same machine with OS 3.9 I get about 18.5MB/sec (as a reference).  So the OS4 cybppc.device is a bit slower under OS4.

I wasn't involved at the time that it was being developed (for OS4).  And I don't know the history behind the bug reporting, nor of any discussions with (or without) Ralph Schmidt.  

I wouldn't say OS4's  virtual memory is "broken", just that for OS4 Classic paging is not (yet) supported and older drivers would obviously need to be updated.  Hyperion has not made any official statements on the future of OS4 Classic.  So I would say if you are interested in further updates to OS4 Classic then let your views be known by e-mailing Hyperion and/or Acube (which is the distributor).

Having said that, it's next to impossible to find developers willing to work on Classic still, especially hardware drivers.  Unless maybe if they were (well) paid and still had working Classic hardware (which is rare).  I personally don't have the money to pay them.

Most active developers have moved on to AmigaOne/Sam, or for the MorphOS team Pegasos 2/Mac Mini etc.   Most don't have Classic hardware anymore at all.
AmigaOS 4.x Beta Tester - Classic Amiga enthusiast - http://www.hd-zone.com is my Amiga Blog, check it out!