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Author Topic: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.  (Read 107149 times)

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Offline nicholas

Quote from: Gulliver;804848
As I understand that is a P96 driver for Apollo developed by Jason McMullan. Why does it also exist another P96 driver by Thomas Richter dated 27/12/2015 ?

What happened? I am a bit confused. Two P96 drivers? Why?
Could anyone shed some light on this matter?

One is Free with a capital F, the other isn't I guess.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #1 on: February 29, 2016, 11:10:39 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;804868
No, none of them are legitimate, unfortunately. Gunnar decided against licensing P96, which means that the drivers cannot be used on solid grounds.

AROS Cybergraphics is illegal?

Has Frank Mariak claimed so? If so, then is P96 itself illegal for the same reason?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #2 on: February 29, 2016, 11:18:21 AM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;804878
As long as it is based on the P96 API, it is. There is likely a native CGfx API, though.


I do not know what the conditions are for a third party to offer a CGfx driver. I can only tell you want the conditions for the P96 API are.

 Currently, the drivers use the P96 API, and *that* is not valid.

Doesn't P96 implement the CGFX API too?

Did a lawyer who specialises in Western Intellectual Property law tell you that this is illegal or is it just your opinion as a lay person?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #3 on: February 29, 2016, 12:27:42 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;804882
What exactly do you expect from me? That I give you a legal opinion? IANAL.

My opinion is simply that: If you're basing your work on the work of others, you'll better have an agreement with this other party. If this other party wants payment, and you don't want to pay, then this agreement does not exist, quite the opposite. Full stop, end of story.

Does WINE have an agreement with Microsoft for cloning the Windows interfaces?

Do the P96 owners have an agreement with Frank Mariak for cloning the CGX interfaces?

The answer is no in both cases.

"ZOMG! Illegal!"
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2016, 03:11:36 PM »
All these recent happenings have pretty much made me convinced that the sooner AROS is a drop in replacement for OS3.x the better for the Amiga community.

The death of the proprietary vultures can't come soon enough.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2016, 04:09:09 PM »
Quote from: AJCopland;804931
This is only true if it uses the code, compiled libraries which require a license. If it's reimplementing the API based on the interface definitions, i.e. those exported to shared libraries and headers, then it's perfectly legal.

You can copyright a specific implementation, but there is nothing to stop someone else from implementing it themself without using any of the existing code or libraries and then selling or open sourcing that implementation.

Which is exactly what the P96 authors did with the CGX API, but apparently what's good for the goose is not good for the gander.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2016, 05:52:46 PM »
Quote from: grond;804943
Give him a little rest. Thomas wrote the first vampire/apollo RTG driver hoping that the whole project would go the route he favours. His work seems now to have been done in vain because it was replaced by a second driver. I can understand this doesn't feel good. And the new driver was written in such a short time (I'm still awed) that I can also understand that somebody who didn't witness its progress would wonder about whether this could be done without peeking at some illegitimate resource.

Just a few hours ago Jason asked when he will finally get the SDcard hardware documentation. He brought it up only yesterday and I wonder whether BigGun & Co can deliver fast enough to keep him happy. If they do, we can probably expect the Sdcard driver by the end of the week... :lol:

It's such a pity for us that his interests have moved away from AROS/Amiga. Just imagine what he could do if this was his main project.

A community funded bounty to clone him would be worth every penny! :)
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 05:54:24 PM by nicholas »
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2016, 10:46:28 PM »
Quote from: Bennymee;804971
I agree: who would not pay ~30-50 euro for a Kickstart/OS 3.1 / RTG licence on a sd-card for the Vampire, just to plug the card in your Amiga and have the thing very easy running.

Who in their right mind would pay twice for something they already own?
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2016, 12:01:21 AM »
Quote from: Niding;804981
Depends what that extra expense entails.

170-180 for 060++ performance is still dirt cheap.

There's no way I'd pay for a bundled kickstart 3.1 when every machine I own already has it.

An empty flash ROM with a bundled patch for the ROM and a copy of transrom is what it should come with. Or AROS by default.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2016, 12:04:08 AM »
Quote from: Niding;804986
You forgot £70 for tea and buiscuits.

And a further 50 quid for a T-shirt and coupon you'll never receive.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2016, 09:59:41 AM »
Quote from: Niding;805006
My tea comment was halfway facetious.

My point is;

IF Apollo Team decided today to go down the AOS route, and thru agreement ends up having to add 20-40 dollars to the Vampire; I still would find the accelerator DIRT cheap and well worth the money.
Gunnar has expressed rather clearly that he wants the ability to develop more advanced features, and as such, I would ASSUME any agreement regarding AOS would entail development of AOS/P96 in one form or another.
Im not privy to the details of the discussion, but I have gotten the impression that Gunnar havent found the details in the agreement satisfactory from his point of view. Thats fine. I wont villify the other side of the discussion got that reason.

Apollo Team got options if they decide against licensing, which is fine with me too, just as an AOS route would be.

Im not fundamentally against developers getting money for their work, which some seems to be.

Code that is paid for can also be Free and/or Open too.

But that's a separate issue to companies demanding we pay again for something we already own.

The law is on the side of the consumer, we would be fully within our rights to demand a refund of the cost of any unwanted bundled Kickstart ROM just as we can do with bundled copies of Windows or OS4 (In the case of buying an Acube 460 mobo for example).

Certain grumpy people who shall remain nameless might not like this but it's the law and there is sweet FA they can do about it except throw their toys out of the pram or take their ball home.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 10:06:25 AM by nicholas »
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2016, 08:42:02 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;805085
Why? Don't you see the problem? There are many helping hands in the open source world that now build on the Os the vampire will depend on, and that is needed to create an income for the vampire. I believe it's really more than fair that *under such conditions* to return the project to the community as well. Fully. I cannot be that a closed source project operates on the back of open source developers. It's not a fair trade.

Quick you better email Intel and tell them to GPL the source to their CPU's. After all they depend on Linux.

legal@intel.com
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2016, 09:18:28 PM »
Quote from: Thomas Richter;805093
Could you please be serious? Since when does an i5 depend on Linux? It's only a relatively small market compared to intel's overall income, and intel *surely* contributes back to the community. They finance an open source support team, provide open source graphics drivers for their CPUs, and open source support tools for their CPU. So it's a "take and give", and it is for me a fair trade.  Does any of the income from the vampire go back into open source development? Or is its core open source?  I beg your pardon, but I've a bit of a problem with the ethics here.

The Apollo is a CPU it " depends" on no operating system whatsoever just like an Intel, ARM or any other brand of CPU.

I know your feelings have been hurt and probably your wallet too but you need to get over it.

You can't always get what you want in life. It's not a big deal.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2016, 12:40:03 PM »
Quote from: wawrzon;805269
and what if vampire/apollo doesnt (need to) ship with any rom? will there still be a problem because hyperiuon has no argument to demand licenses?

I suspect that once the core is finalised it'll just use whatever ROM you have installed like any other accelerator does. Perhaps patching it on the fly and running it from its onboard RAM.

Jason has written a driver for the RTG board that anyone is free to use with the P96 that they already paid for.  There is no law in any country that I'm aware of that prevents Jason from writing this driver and distributing it freely for anyone to do with as they see fit.

I challenge anyone to take this to court and see how far they get.
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini
 

Offline nicholas

Re: [UserReview] Vampire V2-128 received and it's just pure p0rn.
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2016, 04:18:29 PM »
Quote from: soviet;805379
When i see this thread i expected to finding a nice discussion about the new features of the vampire v2 but is just a legal mambo jumbo war, never expected to see so much lawyers wannabees on Amiga.org. :P

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. ;)
“Een rezhim-i eshghalgar-i Quds bayad az sahneh-i ruzgar mahv shaved.” - Imam Ayatollah Sayyed  Ruhollah Khomeini