How many Amiga users are left?

[Franko]

Last time my main A1200 was switched off was September last year when I had to cut the power in the house to do some re-wiring (but it was only off for about 3 hours)...

Can't help but wonder about your "on" times though, Why would anyone just switch on their Amiga for 15 to 30 minutes...

PS: That to me is the secret of never having in 25 years a busted Amiga, if you don't switch it off and and much (if at all) then the components don't get "worn out" so to speak, by the shock of the initial power surge that happens each time you switch them on...

EDIT: On the note of how many active users that may be still out there today I reckon worldwide somewhere between 2 to 3 thousand...

[Franko]

PS last night i banged my head on the wall and now i have a headache...  

Lucky for you it was your head and not your big toe, otherwise you could have got brain damage (again)...

PS: Did you get all your exam results yet...

[Franko]

I dont regularly use anything Amiga these days, but that changes all the time almost like the seasons in this country :-). I do think that there are a lot more people out there that uses a classic Amiga or UAE then people in here think, more or less everyone i know that uses this stuff still dont use any form of online C= forums and thus, people dont see this majority of users at all.

I said that way back last year and got shot down by the usual suspects that I was wrong and that most folk still using an Amiga today would indeed be on these forums...

I agree with you there ARE more folk out their still using Amiga's who either don't bother with these forums (or even know they exist) and the ones that do are actually the minority...

Heck just corresponding with numerous folk selling Amiga stuff on eBAY & YouTube has shown me that most of them NEVER use these forums or have even heard of them...

I know that makes these polls on here kinda pointless in trying to gather figures that are even close to being accurate but they're still interesting nonetheless...

[Franko]

I don't think you're philosophy of that preventing things from wearing out is entirely correct though.  While it can extend some mechanical wearing out, even solid state components get worn down eventually, especially when they're on 24/7.

It's actually based on research done many moons ago by component and TV manufactures like Samsung...

You see my brother in law who's a TV engineer (well back in the days of CRT TV's) always used to show me and talk about the latest research done in that field...

A number of reports were about the testing of mainly capacitors and the showed that the initial voltage surge that all appliances receive when powerd on directly from the mains and not like from standy-by these days, results in an initial high voltage spike/surge that degrades capacitors by the equivalent  of nearly 30 days non stop use at each initial power up...

For me it seems to have proven true as I very rarely (if ever) switch things off and have had very few electrical items break down on me over the years. Sure all things degrade and wear out eventually but older computers, tvs etc... suffer more from this mainly due to the size and amount of large (in comparison to more modern stuff) capacitors they use...

It's like the often heard story of someone digging out of their loft an old Amiga that was working fine when they put it away all those years ago, it worked fine when they put it away but when they dug it out and switched it on it doesn't work, mainly because the capacitors have dried out and the initial voltage shock after all these years kills them totally...

The old C64 was notorious for this problem as a lot of the games were "reset proof" and so the only way to reset the computer was to switch it off and on which took it's toll on the PSU's capacitors, this was easily fixed when people bagan making reset switches & cartridges for the C64 that did away with the need to constantly power off and on...

[Franko]

Franko, your opinions are always entertaining. But, aside from what you and your brother think capacitors have a lifespan rating. Here is how it is is calculated so you know the facts. Surge really has nothing to do with it unless you used the wrong voltage rating in your design.http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx

No offence Amiga92570 but it's not what I or my brother in law think nor is it based on average lifespan ratings, it's based on both scientific tests that were carried out by the manufactures & experience...

Lifespan ratings are based on what you should expect on average from a capacitor being run under normal load and tested upon the capacitors being powered up x amount of times...

The tests in the late nineties carried out by different manufacturers and independent labs showed a number of factors come into play with regard to their lifespan that make the tables you speak of pretty pointless and more of just an average guideline for circuit designers...

The tests and results proved that the more times a capacitor is powered up the shorter it's lifespan as explained previously and that also a simple thing like leaving an item for years without ever being powered up at all, the damage done in the first initial power up after all those years can and often does significant damage to the capacitors or blow them altogether...

If I were to believe the lifespan ratings that you speak of then both my Microvitic Monitor and my 1084 Monitors should have had needed most of  their capacitors replaced years ago with the length of time I've been running them virtually non stop (not to mention my Amigas) but they haven't...

Of course lots of other factors come into it too, mainly the quality and formula used in the manufacture of capacitors, just ask Apple about that one in regard to their problems with capacitors a number of years ago...

At the end of the day I'm satisfied by both what I've read & experienced and been told by not just my brother in law but lots of his acquaintances who were also in the same lines of business as him, who all agree on this matter and many had claimed for years before these tests that this was indeed the case and the tests just confirmed their beliefs...

[Franko]

Not sure what your getting at, what design  ?.  And what do you mean facts?  Facts denote reality not a predictive formula.  From what I can tell this Web site basically confirms Franko's point..  Cold capacitors = short lived capacitors.
Put a voltage metre across the power rails on an Amiga when you turn in on if you doubt the irregularity of power that hits your naked amiga at that time.

Here is Franko who has been using Amigas for nigh on 20 years telling you that keeping them turned on makes them last longer and you quote a formula from an electronics manufacturer who imports components from Hong Kong?

I know who I believe.

Don't just take my word for it Gertsy, here's a simple wee experiment to try and you can prove it for yourself...

Take two identical Amiga's set them up in a nice handy place (but not in the way of everything else) mark one with a large letter A and the other with a large letter B and switch them both on at the same time...

Now over the next 20 year period only switch the one marked A off and on once every 2 years or so and the one marked B switch that off and on a couple of times a day...

Then see which one packs up first... easy eh...

PS: @ The Mods:- what's going on with the site tonight one minute there are umpteen "Server Errors" and the site cannot even be found the next it's working again but the "quick reply" button doesn't work any more or the smilies menu (you have to type them by hand now)...

[Franko]

That wasn't me who you quoted, and then addressed me as if I had said it

Ooops...

I arsed that on up a wee bit... I was Amiga92570 who I meant (changed it now) and not yourself, reckon I got a bit mixed up somewhere along the line as it was me and you who were talking about this subject then Amiga92570 joined in... humble apologies Mizar...

Well anyway I agree in part with what you say but can only stand by what I have said based upon my own experience and so therefore I am right and you are right but I still say I'm more righter than you are in this case...

Erm... is righter a wurd !!! (if not then it soon will be cos I'm writing it in my dictionary right now in me best red crayon...)  

[Franko]

I'd have to agree with your basic premise on this one Franko, for the reasons both you and someone else outlined above. Further whilst larger capacitors might be able to take a larger hit before frying over more modern surface mount components it doesn't take away from the point that turning systems on and off does over the long term do more damage than simply leaving them on as far as the electronics go.

I imagine this is part of the reason so many TV's and other appliances offer a standby as the default rather than simply off on these days.

WOW... where you been hiding...

Yeah, even as far back as the early 80's I found this out with the old C64, most retailers at that time would tell you that almost all of the returns were down to the PSU's blowing, due to the simple fact of switching it on and off so many times...

It wasn't until folk started making or buying reset switches that enabled you to reset so called "reset proof" games that this problem regarding the C64 died out...