A1200 PATA EIDE hard drive?

[Franko]

I'm trying to replace my HD in my A1200, and would appreciate some advice.  I tried installing an EIDE Western Digital 80GB one, but the system wouldn't recognize it in HDToolBox, and I didn't hear it power up with the system like it should.  I read an A1200 hardware FAQ that said most IDE drives will work with the A1200, including EIDE.  It described them as Fast ATA.  The drive I tried was a Parallel ATA one, though EIDE.  Is this a different kind of drive that won't ever work, or do I just need to try a different brand?

I've heard about the Compact Flash drives that can be used in lieu of an actual hard drive, and those sound advantageous.  I don't need a gigantic 80 to 320GB drive like the Western Digital ones, so maybe that would be a better option.  My A1200 has 68030/68882, 32 MB fast RAM, Surf Squirrel SCSI, and OS3.9 BB1.  What all hard drive types are going to be compatible with the A1200?

What type of drives are you using 2.5" or 3.5"

I have never had any problems using 3.5" HDs (I even use two 500GB ones on my main Amiga) but when it comes to 2.5" HDs it seems to be very hit and miss one my A1200s...

I recently bought 30GB and 60GB 2.5" HDs to use on my A1200 but neither of them would even spin up...

I found a place on the net that sells factory refurbished 2.5" HDs and the guy who owns the company was very interested when I told him about this problem on the Amiga. Anyway he kindly sent me some to to test...

The 2.5" ones 4.3GB & 6.5GB ones worked fine but the bigger capacity drives once again refused to even spin up, after much head scratching I reckon it's down to the A1200s motherboard IDE connector not supplying enough current on the +5v line, so I'm going to try splicing the cable and hooking the +5V up to the floppy drives power connector and see it this works...

Does anyone out there use large capacity 2.5" HDs (ie: 10GB or greater) in their desktop A1200 and if so could you please let me know the make and model number of them...

Cheers

Franko

[Franko]

@ x56h43 & Daedalus

Odd thing is I've tried various PSUs A500/A1200 & PC PSUs on two different versions of Rev 1D.4 motherboards and a 1D.1 board and on not one of them could I get any of the drives to even spin up (and no I didn't connect the cable wrong) and I've even tested them on a bare MB (nothing connected at all, not even the floppy) ...

Reckon I'll need to try splicing the cables and tapping the +5v from the floppy power connector

@Kephren

I can easily run any 3.5" drive as they don't take the power from the IDE header on the motherboard that's one of the reasons I think it may be the IDE header not supplying enough current to the bigger capacity 2.5" HDs...

[Franko]

Spin speed and make not capacity are the issues then.

Doubt it, as they don't even spin up at all, tried various makes but all with the same result, any drives over 6.5GB just simply wont even attempt to spin up whether they're ATA-33, ATA-66 or ATA-100..

[Franko]

@ Mizar

Glad it's not just me who's having trouble with some of these drive, reckon I may have found a solution though, gonna test it out today...

@ Daedalus

Nothing wrong with the tracks or the +5 volts, tested on 7 different motherboards and 5 different PSUs (even a PC one), been speaking with a guy who runs a factory where they recondition old HDs for re-sale and he's supplied me with a number of HDs to test from different manufactures...

Still reckon myself it's the IDE header on the MB not supplying enough current or a difference in the reset timing signals on some of them. I'll be testing out a few "solutions" today and hopefully I'll solve this annoying problem...

[Franko]

@ Daedalus

Tried the cutting the reset line trick didn't work...

The guy I spoke to about the drive explained in detail about the differences in reset timing onboard the logic chips on 2.5" HDs between ATA-33, ATA-66 & ATA-100 types, but he's of the same opinion as me that it's the IDE header not being able to supply enough current to some of these drives...

So I'm going to splice some cables and take the +5V motor line from elsewhere on the Amiga MB first to see if that solves it...

PS: nothing wrong with any of the MBs they work fine with drives up to 6.5GB but anything 30GBs and over the drive doesn't even attempt to spin up.

Another reason that I believe the problem is with the +5v on the IDE header is that I can connect any size and type of 3.5" HD with a 2.5" to 3.5" cable and they all run fine whether there ATA-33, ATA-66 or ATA-100, simple reason for this is, the 3.5" drives need to be powered from a source other than the MBs IDE header...

[Franko]

@ Mizar

I've tried Toshiba, IBM & Samsung drives, as I say I've tested them with various PSUs including a PC one and on bare motherboard with absolutely nothing connected, all with the same results, no spin up...

I think myself the IDE header must have some sort of capacity limiting on it's +5v supply, just  about finished making up a new cable to tap into the floppy drives +5V and I'm going to test it shortly, fingers  crossed that it works...

@ Digiman

That would be great, especially if you can supply the make and model numbers you test... cheers....

[Franko]

Ok... I made a cable that supplied the +5V from both the internal floppy drive or from a external PC PSU. Results... still no spin up on any of the large capacity drives (30GB & 60GB) all other drives (6.5GB and under) worked fine with this cable so it's not anything to do with the motherboards IDE header not supplying enough current...

Here's a list of the 2.5" drives tested....

Toshiba HDD2181 MK3021GAS DMA/ATA-100 30GB
Result = No Spin Up

Toshiba HDD2183 MK6021GAS DMA/ATA -100 60GB
Result = No Spin Up

Toshiba HDD2134 MK4309MAT DMA/ATA-33 4.3GB
Result = Works 100%

Toshiba HDD2143 MK6411MAT DMA/ATA-33 6.5GB
Result = Works 100%

Toshiba HDD2145 MK8113MAT DMA/ATA-100 6.5GB
Result = Works 100%

IBM DKLA-54230 DMA/ATA-33 4.3GB
Result = Works 100%

IBM WDA-280 DMA/ATA-33 80MB
Result = Works 100%

So it doesn't appear to be a power supply issue and I had thought that it may be because the larger drives were DMA/ATA-100 but the Toshiba HDD2145 6.5GB drive is  DMA/ATA-100 and works fine.

I'm at a loss here trying to figure out why these larger capacity drives wont even spin up, they've been tested with different MB revisions, different PSUs, different cables, tried cutting line 1 and very carefully checked all connections and MBs for faults, heck even tested them on totally bare motherboards all with the same result, no spin up...

Anyone out there any other suggestions or better still does anyone have the make and models of 2.5" HDs that are at least 20GB in size and that they have working on their set up...

[Franko]

@ Daedalus

Now that is interesting that your HDD2181s work, I have been wondering if the drives themselves were in fact dead, I bought them from a member here and they were shipped from the USA to Scotland so I am now wondering if they have been damaged in transit across the pond...

Unfortunately I  don't have anything I can test them in other than my Amigas, my sister & nephew who live close by wont let me test them in their laptops (they're the type of people who think opening up a laptop or adding things to it will break it... )

I really need bigger drives in my Amigas (even 1TB in my main towered A1200 is not enough for me these days) and tiny drives of 6.5GB are just no good to me. The guy whom I've been in contact with who runs an HD refurbishing company did mention he had Western Digital drives and IBM ones, I'll need to send him an email or phone him and see if he can let me test some of these types...

On a side note, I've even connected up a 200GB Western Digital 3.5" HD ATA-100 type directly to the Amigas IDE header using a 3.5" to 2.5" cable and drawing the power from the Amigas internal floppy PSU header and it runs fine...

So I think you may be right and these drives I've bought are as dead as a dodo...

[Franko]

Franko:

This is from another thread to do with the A1200 IDE interface.  I don't understand, you've been saying nothing larger than 6.5GB has worked, but here you're saying up to 60GB or 500GB works.  Is this only with 3.5" drives, or because of an IDE enhancement board?

I'm noticing also, other users are showing 30GB+ drives they have working on their A1200.  Such as: rvo nl, psxphill, and Daedalus.  Were those Toshiba 30GB and 60GB drives the only ones you tested that didn't work?

Wow, what're you doing that 1TB isn't enough space?

I'd be interested to know if the Western Digital 2.5" HDs work for you too, if you test those.

Firstly I have nearly 1 TB filled with 25 years of Amiga stuff, DVD ISO images of my favourite DVD movies, CD ISO images of my favourite CDs and I've only got about 180MB of free space left, so I'll need to get some bigger HDs for my towered A1200 pretty quickly...

Unfortunately the only large capacity 2.5" HDs I have are all Toshiba drives and the guy whom I can get more from only has Toshiba ones at the moment...

However all the other 2.5" HDs I've tested 6.5GB and under have been Toshiba, Western Digital, Samsung and IBM and all work fine...

Still can't figure out why others managed to get the same 30GB Toshiba ones to work as they were the exact same model numbers, surely all the ones I've tested can't all be dead...

I've tested them with both the 4xEIDE and FastATA MKIII interfaces and still not spin up...

Don't have any problems with 3.5" HDs though with any brand or capacity, all 3.5" HDs whether ATA-33, ATA-66, ATA-100 or ATA-133 all work 100%...

All my large capacity HDs I use up to 500GB are 3.5" types which as I say work fine no matter what model or brand I've tested but for my desktop A1200 I really want to use 2.5" HDs but 6.5GB is no good for the kind of use I have (really need 30GB drive to be of any use to me)...

I'm just waiting for the guy I know to get some other makes in instead of Toshiba drives to see if I can get them to work, it's really doing my head in, never been stumped like this before and I'm getting a wee bit peed of with it now, might just have to settle for low profile 3.5" HDs but I don't really want to...

[Franko]

Be very interested to know if it works...

PS:the WD3200BEVE is 320GB not 298GB, how did you arrive at that figure

[Franko]

@ Mizar

True, if you read the definitions on WIKI about how drive sizes are calculated you soon realise that it's all pretty misleading as you explained above...

It even points out that Apple and Microsoft use two different ways to calculate the space on your HD so that even if you used identical drives in each manufacturers machines the Windows one will always show it has more space...

Ruddy stupid if you ask me I have always used values of 1024 for calculating such things in computer terms as it makes sense to do so in hex but as you say it's like the old under £100 thing (ie: £99.99) somehow makes some folk think they're getting a bargain... :lol:

[Franko]

@ Claw22000

It's not the formatting or partitioning that's the problem folk are having in this thread, it's the fact that the drives wont even spin up... ie:the HD's motor won't even start to spin at all ...

[Franko]

Oh thats easy your are plugging it in upside down.

If only that were the case...

[Franko]

Franko:

So the drive works!  You must've had back luck too with the large drives being the DOA ones.  Order this 298GB WD model brand new, and with a little luck this time your drive will be intact and will work for your A1200.  Then if you compress some of that enormous data, such as the CD and DVD images, perhaps that'd be ample size for you too.  I think they are discontinuing this model, however, as I got it at clearance half-price.  But there are probably some available still.  I saw it on Vesalia recently.

Cheers Mizar, I'll try and order one today, kinda came to the conclusion that those two disks were DOA after checking through all the specs & technical details there is no real reason that they shouldn't have worked...

298GB will be plenty for my other A1200s as I only need the towered one with it's two 500GB HDs to backup my DVDs and CD ISO files. All my other miggies only contain Amiga specific stuff so 298GB will more than do...

[Franko]

@ Mizar

If you use either the 4xEDIE or the FASTATA MKIII buffered interface boards they automatically split the first part of you HDs up into 4GB partitions that use up 8 x 4GBs worth of space...

However on my 500GB Drives I use SmartFileSystem and once installed on the HDs RDB you can use any size of HD and any size of Partition...

I Only use FFS partitions in the first 4GB space on the Master HD to boot up into OS3.1, OS3.5 or OS4.0 ...