Commodore Scotland Under Threat...

[Franko]

I'd like to think that the reason OS4.x isn't on there is more because it is an active product which you can still purchase, unlike the other stuff.

I just realised that AI never even bothered putting copies of WB3.1 for sale in their online shop.

OS4 isn't there because it's still on sale same as OS3.9 isn't on there, everything else that's there is because other than downloading them from sites like mine from the net there is not other way for folk to easily (if at all) purchase them anymore...

As I've said anyone can easily find every piece of Amiga software on the net, just reckon it's way past the time to stop pretending that this is not the case and put an end to all the nonsense that this is somehow harming sales somewhere and pretending that this doesn't happen...

I've already said here that you can get hold of KS ROMS & Some Workbench versions by purchasing Cloanto's Amiga Forever but what about folk who have no use for Amiga Forever why should they have to pay over the odds for something when all they need is a working copy of some Workbench disks...

At the end of the day I don't make a single penny from my site in fact it costs me money to run the thing, so what the fuss is all about I really don't know...

[Franko]

Oi Franko!  That's no way to talk to C-USA's new Public Relations Manager!  

Just talking to him in the same manner they address the Amiga Community...

[Franko]

Guys, the name-calling is getting really pathetic. Why can't these topics be discussed maturely? Franko, you never used to behave this way. Your posts always used to be very entertaining.

I don't think anybody wants to read childish, insulting comments. It makes this site quite unpleasant. So please, everyone, just be civil or let it go.

--
moto

Sorry you feel that way moto but he started this crap with his "Mr Pirate" BS and so I just respond in kind to folk like that...

[Franko]

@ KThunder & AmigaNG

I do know what I am doing you know, whether legal or not that is my problem to deal with when the time comes. It's only my opinion but it's way past time this whole subject was brought out into the open and debated properly...

At the end of the day if no company is willing to re-release all this old software at a price that is fair & reasonable and make it easily available to purchase, then perhaps what I am doing may result in something being done to help bring this about...

[Franko]

"He started it"? Seriously?!

--
moto

Yeah I know it sounds childish but you did ask the question, what did you want me to say OOOh sorry moto I won't do it again and not even put my point across to your question, c'mon...

[Franko]

Personally I'd just leave it as it is until (if) you get genuine requests to remove particular content from resepctive copyright holders. Sure, some of it is technically piracy, but as you mentioned a lot of the stuff thier simply isnt available to buy anymore, so it's not like youre costing anyone money for 99% of the content. The KS ROM images are probably the main exception here, and the things you're most likely to get genuine requests to remove.
Im reluctant to use the phrase, but it is a bit of a grey area in some ways. Legally its fairly black and white, but with a lot of software that is still copyrighted some of the companies dont even exist anymore, or have simply forgotten about some of thier software for non mainstream options from last centuary, or possibly even unaware theyre the copyright holders to some software (from when mergers or buyouts, etc. happen).

You've just summed up quite well what I've been trying to get across here, I intend as I've said before to leave things as is on the site and decide which actions to take if or when I receive any legal or warning from any company who may still hold copyrights to stuff there and demand I remove it...

[Franko]

No, I don't expect that. I didn't ask you not to express your opinions. I simply asked for those opinions to be expressed without name-calling. I'm not singling you out here, I'm just surprised to some of the posts you've been making recently.

As I said moto and I don't mean this to sound childish (just can't think of any other way to word it) but Dammy started with the name calling crap and so I treat folks the same way they treat me if that means sinking to their level then so be it but I'm not the type of person who just sits there and lets folk say things about me without responding...

Sorry if you have found all this offensive, but I can't explain it any better than that...

[Franko]

@ Fats

Your entitled to your opinion fats but for the reasons already given things shall remain as they are on my site until someone who holds the copyrights to whatever contacts me directly and points outs their objections properly & in full...

@ Duce

Already emailed them but received no reply....

@ Transition

The Link to my site has been here since I started my site and anyone who visits it and happens across the downloads page are clearly warned that any software they download is only for the purpose of replacing damaged software/floppies that they legally own and have no other way to purchase a replacement or back up of their legally owned software. At the end of the day as I've already said when the appropriate people respond to my site & it's contents then I shall decide what action to take...

@ All

We all have our opinions on this subject and I think I have made mine quite clear on the matter, so until I receive an "official" complaint from a copyright holder then things on the site shall remain as is. If you don't like "Piracy" then fine but to me when something like these old pieces of software have no other way to be obtained legally and easily then it's time all this nonsense was brought out into the open and cleared up finally one way or the other...

It's seems to me only certain people here actually care about calling what I'm doing as "Piracy", I as most will know am quite new to the net and find it really quite strange that folk hold such views on old Amiga software, when in my short time on the net I have easily found hundreds of site where the same stuff can be downloaded and by the looks of things have been doing so for years or can be constantly bought on ebay on DVD & CD collections which ebay only remove when a complaint is made and about two hours later the stuff is re-listed again.

I do not make any money from this and wouldn't even attempt to do so to me doing that is "piracy" it costs me money every month to keep my site running and advert free and to me it's far better that folk are able to download stuff from sites such as mine rather than going to the likes of ebay and helping someone make a pretty penny from this old software by actually paying for these DVD/CD collections...

Why are folk here not complaining about all the other sites on the net where all this software can be downloaded and only mine is being complained about, seems a bit odd that to me...

[Franko]

I dont have a dog in this race but, to be fair, the people who moderate this site has a reasonable right to what they think is okay, what with them moderating the site and all

I never said they didn't Runequester, I respect the mods on this site and if they ask me to remove something then of course I will...

I just personally think it's high time this subject was brought out into the open and debated reasonably once and for all, there's no point in sticking you head in the sand and pretending that such things don't happen...

[Franko]

I dont disagree in principle, but these discussions tend to never go well
 
Not that that ever stopped anybody

I don't think from what I have seen in my short time here most discussions ever go as planned on this site, but at least here we are allowed to voice our opinions without much censorship which a few other sites should take note of and learn from...

[Franko]

So what is your call on the kickstart and WB on Franko's site?

Just can't give it a rest can you... :rolleyes:

[Franko]

Just proves how much of a child he (dammy) is, ofcourse since he doesn't have the intellect to argue with you what else can you expect.

I've not been online here much tonight as I've been having to answer more emails and members questions on my site tonight about who this Dammy guy is and what his agenda is all about...

In the past 24 hours I've received more visitors and emails than I normally get in an entire month...

So I've explained to these folk just who DAMMY (MR RANDY VICE) is and given all contact details I have about him out to these very angry people, so that they can contact MR VICE himself and express their views directly to him...

If at the end of the day Randy wishes to continue with his little vendetta and I have to remove certain links then the homepage on my site shall contain all contact details for Mr Vice where folks can take the matter up directly with him, as this will save me having to reply to all these folk individually. From most of the emails I've received I wouldn't like to be in his shoes from the things folk have to say about him... (some very angry & scary folk out there)

Oh well, it's not my problem if Randy wishes to put himself in this position, just hope for his sake that some of the things folk have said about him don't come true...

[Franko]

Sorry, I may be a little late on this thread (7 pages in!) however, the site in question does indeed have seem to have pirate copies of the Amiga system files, which Cloanto currently sell (and at a very reasonable price I might add too). The domain is also hiding behind an anonymising agent. All of which comes across as decidedly dodgy.

The site in question as you call it is run by me Frank Spiers and is hardly anonymous. I don't control how the domain is displayed so why this appears dodgy is beyond me.

If Cloanto has a complaint about my site it is very easy for them to contact me and tell what the problem is as I am unaware of anything on my site that has come from Cloanto.

Would you care to explain what you mean by the term dodgy...

Look pal don't tell me to sort myself out, get a life and stop your ruddy whinging...

[Franko]

Franko, your promotion of pirate roms has gone under radar until now it seems. Promoting pirate software is a clear violation of the TOS.
 
Do not post links or requests for warez.
Warez in our definition is illegal software up to and including "abandonware". The exception is if the person is KNOWN to have the legal right to distribute said software. This is not debatable.
This is a formal warning.

Well as I see you have already removed my signature yourself the PM I just sent you was a complete waste of time.

I have also just sent you another PM asking you to remove all links to Commodore USAs site as they actively promote Piracy on their site but as you seem to issue infractions then go ahead and delete things without even giving the user a chance to read & respond to your PMs then it's only fair that I respond here in public to you as you don't have the decency to even allow someone to respond to your PMs.

If you would care to check out this active promotion of Piracy by CUSA here...

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS.aspx

I refer of course to the text "No need to bother with floppy disks, as practically every game you ever owned is now readily available on the internet."

It would be only fair to ask you to remove all links to Commodore USA and any references to them from Amiga.org as you said to me in the PM "refrain from promoting pirate software on Amiga.org.", this of course should include any links you may have made yourself.

Yours Sincerely

Frank Spiers

[Franko]

CUSA has no pirate software available for download and I have been told they intend to have an online store similar to iTunes.

I have just received your PM stating the above and as you wish to make this public I shall repeat my everything in full here as you seem quite determined to just single out me for some reason.

PM from Redrumloa...

Dear Franko,

You have received an infraction at Amiga.org.

Reason: Signature Rule Violation
-------
Remove link to pirate software in signature and refrain from promoting pirate software on Amiga.org.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Original Post:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=613169
Quote:
@ KThunder & AmigaNG

I do know what I am doing you know, whether legal or not that is my problem to deal with when the time comes. It's only my opinion but it's way past time this whole subject was brought out into the open and debated properly...

At the end of the day if no company is willing to re-release all this old software at a price that is fair & reasonable and make it easily available to purchase, then perhaps what I am doing may result in something being done to help bring this about...
All the best,
Amiga.org

Response From Me...

While I dispute the reason for this infraction and I dispute the the claim you make that this is a link to pirated software. I shall remove the link from my signature as requested...

Franko

I would like to point out here that within seconds of you issuing the infraction and without even reading the above PM sent by me you had already removed my signature with having the decency to allow me to do so myself.

PM from me to RedRumloa...

Hi Redrumloa

As it would seem only fair that I have to remove the link to my site from my signature for the reasons you gave.

I feel it only fair to ask you to remove all links to CommodoreUSAs site here on Amiga.org as they actively promote Piracy on their site.

See here for details...

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS.aspx

I refer of course to this line in their text, "No need to bother with floppy disks, as practically every game you ever owned is now readily available on the internet."

Thank You

Frank Spiers

Response from Redrumloa...

They do not have pirate software available for download. They intend to have an iTunes-like store.

Response from me...

I did not claim that they had pirate software to download. My point is that they are actively promoting piracy on their site.

Which if you claim and Amiga.org claims you do not condone or tolerate such things on this site then all links to Commodore USA should be removed also if you are to treat everyone fairly.

Now while you claim that any link to piracy will not be tolerated or condoned how is it then that there are many other such links on this site that have not been removed.

I give you this one for example (sorry petemaxi) which allows you to download PDF file of the OS3.9 manuals which are still under copyright and still available to buy from the likes of Vesalia. Piru had already pointed this out but why has this one not been removed and infractions issued.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=56084

Seems to me that you are interpreting the site rules to suit yourself and lack any decency or fairness in this matter, strange how this has all come about since your cosy wee visit with Barry & Dammy and your sudden change of heart towards CUSA.

Still if you want to be petty about this then I can lower myself to play that game too.

[Franko]

Franko,  why don't you just put links to torrent files, instead of hosting the actual downloads.  That way you'll be sweet and nobody can complain.

Magnet links are good.

If you don't do it, I will.

Don't know anything about how to do that, but I'm more than happy to keep the downloads page on my site open until someone who has a genuine complaint about my site informs me personally...

In the past few days mainly thanks to CUSA & Dammy I've had more visitors to my site than I usually get in an entire month...

Still all the people who use my site (and many of them are members here) are quite happy to download stuff and support my efforts know how to find my site...

I had during the night received two emails from soldiers still stationed in Iraq who were most upset that certain folk are trying to force me to close the downloads section. As it seems they are running Amiga emulators on their laptops during their R&R time and find my site quite handy for games to download and play...

I have emailed them back with all of Dammys details (which were in the public domain before I even published them) and asked them to take it up with him as he is the cause of all of this...

It's just a shame for everyone else that the holier than thou brigade are out in force once again spewing their venom, but all details of such folk will be passed on to the folk who email me at my site enquiring just who these numpties are, as I've said that's their problem to deal with when the time comes...