Hello my first Thread

[Franko]

Hello friends this is my first Thread, thanks to Karlos and his help, thank you friend!

So you weren't kidding... :lol:

Well done... now say something...

[Franko]

I just wanna know which one of the characters in your avatar you are! The half naked chick blowing a kiss or the tiny knight?  :lol:

I know which one I'd prefer...

Ere.. Templario, have you been a naughty boy/girl over on AW...

[Franko]

I saved for years to get a CSPPC to go in an A4000 and then waited more years for OS4 to finally come out. I would be shocked and surprised if it couldnt be talked about here at A.org of all places

You can talk about OS4 here, I have done so in the recent past and still say OS4.0 is slower than my grannie on a bad day taking her one legged tortoise for a walk...

[Franko]

Oh, and tell your grannie to just glue the tortoise to a roller-skate :

Ah cannay she's been deed fur aboot 30 years and tortie passed oan aboot six years ago (he made a nice ashtray though...

[Franko]

time to upgrade from that 2MB of Ram, pre-release of OS4.0 and make the poor tortoise a go-kart:)

Blizzard060/PPC 60Mhz/240Mhz 256MB RAM Full OS4.0 including the one and only update, RESULT = One dead grannie & one dead tortoise (both still more useful & faster than OS4.0)...

[Franko]

I was almost ready to go and buy a copy for my (currently) non-RTG A1200, but if it's really that bad I might pass.  I wonder if they ever put out a demo version.

Your far better off with the dead grannie & tortoise option, bit smelly but much more fun...

[Franko]

@ Karlos

I tried those setting as you'd already explained them in an earlier post, but honestly it was still way too slow for me. It's just my own personal opinion on OS4.0, if other folk want to give it a try then don't be put off by my opinion, give it a try at least then decide.

Biggest gripe I have with OS4.0 is Hyperion released it, I bought it brand new, then they only ever released one update for it before abandoning all support for it after only a few months...

[Franko]

I'm not disputing your experience of it, I'm just providing some balance. Those settings worked fine for me, 256 colours / solid moving / gradient filled / antialias font / ARGB icon stuff made the system very slow.

I certainly dispute the claim it was as fast as a "chip ram only" machine that you made previously, I mean if that's not exaggeration then there had to be something seriously wrong somewhere. Running my 040 on just chip ram is insanely slow.

Before I tried the settings you gave I stick by my chipram statement, the settings you give does improve the speed to a reasonable level, but still too slow for my liking.

Think I'm so used to running a highly optimised set up under OS3.5 on the 060 side that anything seems slow in comparison...

[Franko]

@ Karlos

Try running your 68K only setup without any PPC datatypes, media players or anything like that. You may have gotten used to your PPC doing some of the lifting in the background that you forgot about.

I never use datatypes (worst thing ever invented for 68K). On the 68K side of things I have no PPC software that does any background processes, the only time the PPC gets used is for encoding MP3s (Lame), playing MP3s (SongPlayer) and the Frodo C64 emulator and on the odd occasion viewing some PDFs, everything is else is in standard 68K or 060 where possible. (seems pretty pointless having a PPC now when I look at it...)

@ nicholas

So how does MorphOS for BPPC compare to OS4 in your esteemed opinion Frank?

I never use any MorphOS progs prefer the plain vanilla PPC code anything I've tested, for example Lame or Frodo run much faster and better using plain PPC when compared to their MorphOS counterparts, so for me MorphOS on my A1200s is a big no no....  

And before you all jump on my head saying I must be doing this wrong or that wrong, the answer is no I'm not. 25 years of using the Amiga on a daily basis has led me to carry out extensive tests to find the best & fastest possible set ups for my hardware using either software available or writing my own which I'm happy with...

PS: This threads meant to be Templario's introduction not a debate on OS 4.X, PPC's or when did you first post a thread, apologies to Templario for the hijacking of your thread...

[Franko]

@ Karlos

I know iprefs use the ruddy useless things (datatypes) I was meaning for viewing GFX or playing audio, I prefer to use a dedicated util for such things.

I've never read much of the docs for MorphOS and can't tell you which versions I tried as I deleted them all a long time ago, yep still no RTG board.

Most of the time I run a plain old 640 x 256 128 colour screen for Workbench and for GFX or DTP (ImageFX, DPaint, Pagestream, Final Writer etc..) I usually use 640 x 512 or higher.

Quick example of Lame V3.92, encoding an MP3 (10 seconds Audio)
Plain PPC = 31 seconds
MorphOS = 46 seconds

FrodoC64 emulator
Plain PPC Version = full screen GFX, full framerate + Audio
MorphOS Version = Window on Workbench no option for full screen/ skip every 2 to 3 frames (depending on game) No Audio

All I know is after years of testing I have found the best way for me to get every bit of speed I can out of my set up and tried all sorts things and different versions of various software along the way, but as I've said before I've disassembled a lot of stuff along the way and optimised it for my own use including the roms. I know from helping out others over the years unless your using the exact same set up as me then the way my miggies are set up you'd never get be able to get the same speed or use some of the modified code I use...

[Franko]

@ Karlos

Dunno to be honest, as I say I never read much of the docs just installed (as far as I remember) the MorphOS stuff my sister downloaded for me years ago along with some utils from places like Aminet and a lot of hacks that were available on CD Magazine I used to subscribe to (100% Amiga it was called) and gave it a go.

Never knew it wasn't meant to support AGA and from the few things I tried plain old PPC version won out on speed tests so I stuck with that and spent years optimising my system to get the best out of a combination of 68k, 060 & PPC...

[Franko]

@ Karlos

BIG OOOOPPPSSS...

I couldn't get to sleep earlier this morning as I wondered why you had said it was not AGA compatible, so I dug out an old HD that I had used the alleged MorphOS on, now I know you'll laugh but... erm... with all the posts & threads I've been reading recently about AROS and MorphOS, I think MorphOS must have somehow been engrained on my brain cell and I've made just a teeny weeny wee totey smidgen of an error here...  but it was WarpOS I was actually talking about and not MorphOS (sound a bit the same, dont they)...

So apologies for any confusion caused and hopefully I won't get lynched by the MorphOS crowd, simple mistake really, any numptie could have made...

(PS: I blame nicholas for inserting his post inbetween posts with the word MorphOS in it...

(so with regard to the above posts please read WarpOS and not MorphOS and direct all comments and complaints to care of : nicholas...)

Oh... someone's at the front door, sorry gotta go now...

[Franko]

@franko

Now that this MOS/WOS mystery has been put to rest, what's your specific beef with datatypes?

I'm a bit surprised to hear them referred to as the "worst thing ever invented for 68K". How is a modular system of file descriptors and corresponding codecs that allows applications to open new formats they couldn't support previously a bad thing?

If anything, my only criticism of them has been that their implementation did not run far enough, support for exporting data in a particular format was often overlooked. As an import mechanism, however, they are incredibly useful.

Just having my breakfast right now...

I'll get back to you on all things wrong with Datatypes shortly...

(At least I can't mix up DataTypes with anything else...

[Franko]

@ Karlos

Right then... DataTypes... where do I start... :rolleyes:

Generally, using Datatypes in comparison to a dedicated self contained util are slow in comparison...

The modular concept of Datatypes is another big no no for me, I prefer code to be one piece (ie: self contained) where possible and not rely on installing lots of extra libraries and other small files scattered here there and everywhere all over your HD...

I know so called self contained utils use various OS libraries and sometime some external ones, but these are usually contained in the ROM and not scattered all over the HD to the same extent that most Datatypes requires.

It's one of my biggest bugbears on the Amiga is a program or util that uses this so called modular approach and is not as self contained as it could be, the likes of MUI or ImageStudio for example and the hundereds of so called modules that they use scattered all over the place...

I reckon my reasons for disliking such things goes way back to the day's when things mostly ran from floppies and if you had 4Meg of fastram this was a luxury (MUI was totally unusable if you had no HD). This was when I first began coding in 68k and I followed the path of what most coders were doing back then, make your prog as small as possible, self contained as much as possible and to run on as basic a system as much as you could.

I know those constraints don't apply as much today, with almost everyone having HDs, plenty of extra ram & accelerators, but it's just a habit and method that has stuck with me to this day. I very rarely use Workbench to do anything and operate mainly from the Cli/Shell and a customised version of DirWork that I made cos I don't like Dopus that much either, but thats another story...

[Franko]

That depends very strongly on the datatype. On OS3.9, the picture.datatype is capable of using PPC for colour remapping and dithering. That made a big difference on my machine. Coupled with PPC capable datatypes for png, jpg etc. I found that multiview ended up being significantly faster than most "dedicated" 68K image viewers that were capable of viewing such formats directly (Hardly a surprise, considering the performance difference between 68040@25MHz versus 603e@240MHz).

Don't like OS3.9 (ask MrMoonlight about that one)... I've had enough of OS3.9 recently to last me a lifetime with that bloated piece of nonsense that is OS3.9

The whole OS is modular and always has been. If a criticism of datatypes is that it's modular, then you might as well regard the whole OS as the "worst thing ever invented for 68K" for exactly the same reason.

I know, but the real workings of the OS is held in ROM and not on the HD, again that's a whole other debate...

Far from being scattered all over the place, datatypes live in SYS:Devs/Datatypes (descriptors) and SYS:Classes/Datatypes for the actual implementations. Client applications also require SYS:Libs/datatypes.library.

Not true, they may live in a directory but unless you've defragged the HD the actual code/data wont all be sitting happily side by side, you'll find blocks of data scattered all over the HD...

Again, scattered is a big misnomer. The AmigaDOS directory structure is very well organised compared to most operating systems.

Agreed it's better than most, but before you defrag your disk run something like ReOrg and see just how scattered your files in any one directory really are...

MUI classes and libraries pretty much live in the one place on your HD too.

I refer you to the above answers...

You have a BlizzardPPC with 256MB of RAM on it and I strongly doubt you are still using a floppy-only system. I don't see how your criticism of stuff being "scattered" all over your HD really apply any more.

I already said in my previous post that it doesn't apply as much these days. I haven't used a floppy in about 10 years and dumped about 4000 of them about 4 years back as I couldn't even give them away...