What would you like to see in a new Amiga?

[downix]

McVenco wrote:

Tahoe wrote:
A soul. And that's something they'll never get again.

Sad but true. Very true.

The Amiga as a separate/independent hardware platform will never exist anymore. The only possible "new Amiga" will be an Amiga-like OS running on some standard hardware. And the "soul" in this system has to come from the community that uses it. Which, I'm sorry to say, hasn't got much soul left either apart from some people determined to at least do something for an Amiga-ish system (MorphOS, AROS).

You haven't studied what is available lately, have you?  While yes, there is a start-up cost, you can do semi-custom and even custom work for a fraction of the cost that was done back even a decade ago.  FPGA's, CPLD's,Structured ASIC's, all bring the cost of a custom machine down to at least the affordable range.

Look at Apple, while yes it might use commodity components, it uses custom PCB's and designwork, giving their equipment different properties than the usual PC design.  That is one approach that works for them.  Other options abound, you just have to quit being so defeated and actually look around.

Look at my buddy icon for a second.  Do you realize that Sun bucks the trend, with "the rule" that x86 is the only processor in the world for desktop, workstation or server work?  Also "the rule" that a CPU has to be from a single vendor, as their CPU's can be found made by both Fuji and TI, with no difference to the application code used.  They succeed where others fail, maybe you should look at things a bit more positively.

[downix]

McVenco wrote:

downix wrote:

You haven't studied what is available lately, have you?  While yes, there is a start-up cost, you can do semi-custom and even custom work for a fraction of the cost that was done back even a decade ago.  FPGA's, CPLD's,Structured ASIC's, all bring the cost of a custom machine down to at least the affordable range.

I know very well what's available these days. It's indeed very comfortable not to have to design expensive chips since you can put pretty much anything in FPGA's or the likes. Still, you will have to make a custom mainboard then in some way so, although being cheaper, it's still going to be quite costly when you make very few of them for a small userbase (look at the SAM440 - it's a nice board but too expensive because it's not made in high numbers)

Look at Apple, while yes it might use commodity components, it uses custom PCB's and designwork, giving their equipment different properties than the usual PC design.  That is one approach that works for them.  Other options abound, you just have to quit being so defeated and actually look around.

Apple has been around for around 3 decades now. The Amiga has been pretty much dead for half of that time now. To design and build new hardware and software that can compete with modern day standards will need either a lot of time from a few people, or a hell of a lot of money. Probably both. That's why a "new Amiga" as in new hardware will never exist. Nobody wants to spend tens of thousands (millions?) of dollars/euros on designing something that is doomed to fail because only 351 people will buy that machine.

Look at my buddy icon for a second.  Do you realize that Sun bucks the trend, with "the rule" that x86 is the only processor in the world for desktop, workstation or server work?  Also "the rule" that a CPU has to be from a single vendor, as their CPU's can be found made by both Fuji and TI, with no difference to the application code used.  They succeed where others fail, maybe you should look at things a bit more positively.

Sun has been around a long time as well and has a long-time userbase. It's not that I don't believe in the possibility of a new Amiga system with non-standard hardware, I just believe (no, wait: I KNOW) that it isn't economically viable to design such a system.

Let the Amiga exist in the same way as, say, Haiku. An open source OS running on standard wintel-ish hardware (or a Mac or Sun for that matter). That way it's far more accessible for a large public, and still programmers can have their way to make use of the hardware in a very efficient and non-hogging way (unlike Vista for example).

Well, let us look at this for a minute.  One of the proposals I put forth awhile back was to cut a deal with a PC motherboard vendor for a custom run of their boards, with the BIOS removed and a custom firmware, such as the Amithlon kernel, embedded in its place.  You'd suddenly have a new Amiga with minimal R&D and start up costs.  Only a minimum order # for them to preload the ROM for you (100 units, incidentally).  You might have a standard PC board, but you would eliminate 99% of the headaches of PC's, that is getting parts to work.  You do the same with the peripheral cards, video and such, and put them into a prebuilt system.  While yes, you can use non-approved cards using special drivers, the cards you provide have the firmware pre-installed and prepared, for only a nominal extra charge...

[downix]

McVenco wrote:

downix wrote:

One of the proposals I put forth awhile back was to cut a deal with a PC motherboard vendor for a custom run of their boards, with the BIOS removed and a custom firmware, such as the Amithlon kernel, embedded in its place.

Congratulations, so you have a 2008 spec computer running a 1994 operating system (or a derivate of it). Sure, it may be fast but you will still have the drawbacks of the ancient stuff. You need to do some serious programming to be able to use all of the modern hardware that can make use of that new system, and I'm not even starting on modern software.

I like the idea, but I have very serious doubts that it can be done - not without major work from lots of people, or it won't be done until 2022 (and then the competition will be 14 years ahead still....)

You don't need to use "all" of the modern hardware, only a subset that will give you the functions needed.  So, we'd be limited to say ATI *or* nVidia cards, but not both, for example.

Focus on getting the core together, to give one spec or a limited SPEC that can be worked from.  Software wise you are quite right, our apps have vanished, save some hangers on like Aladdin and ImageFX.