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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« on: November 23, 2007, 04:44:40 PM »

Ok, fine, my 2 bits:

You must crawl before you can walk.  I am working on an A500-like expantion bus for my MiniMig, you'll need that before even trying Zorro III.  You'll need ECS before you get AGA, so someone needs to make ECS.  Come on guy, be realistic.  You have to take these steps first.
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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2007, 05:03:07 PM »
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A6000 wrote:
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downix wrote:

Ok, fine, my 2 bits:

You must crawl before you can walk.  I am working on an A500-like expantion bus for my MiniMig, you'll need that before even trying Zorro III.  You'll need ECS before you get AGA, so someone needs to make ECS.  Come on guy, be realistic.  You have to take these steps first.


ECS is in the minimig FPGA which is used in place of the AGA chipset, it may be possible to reprogram this later to be AGA as I said in my earlier posts.

Only if you supply an FPGA large enough.  The current FPGA is not. How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?
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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2007, 07:03:21 PM »
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HenryCase wrote:
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downix wrote:
How about we get an A2000 replacement going first, then let's work on the next step?


An A2000 clone Minimig (with the expansion options) is what I see as the next major step forward for the Minimig. I'm working on something now that needs A2000 compatibility, so of course I'd say that!

A6000, the negativity is arising because you need to think practically about this project idea. I appreciate you've said that you're not able to help with the technical aspects of implementing your design, so why not do something about that? I've started to learn Verilog so I can help, using this tutorial, I recommend you do the same:
http://www.asic-world.com/verilog/veritut.html

If you want the CPU fast-slot I have the design 90% done with my neo-A500 sidecar slot design.
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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2007, 08:57:16 PM »
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HenryCase wrote:
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downix said:
If you want the CPU fast-slot I have the design 90% done with my neo-A500 sidecar slot design.


Thanks downix. As it happens it is the A2000 CPU slot that I need for my project. Is this really very similar to the A500 sidecar slot?

I don't want to say too much about my project at the moment, because it might not come to anything, still very early days. When I've got some concrete signs of progress I'll be posting on a.org for assistance.

yes, only 2 pins different.  So, close enough that it can easily be adapted.
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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2007, 10:31:11 PM »
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Donar wrote:
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According to my tests, the speed is near a 25MHz 040.

Out of interest, which Coldfire and 68k emulator do you use? And what code did you use for testing?

You could make it near native with a hardware translator.
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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2007, 02:23:31 AM »
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Donar wrote:
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You could make it near native with a hardware translator.

You mean a device that translates 68k instructions to the appropriate Coldfire ones,an emulator/translator in HW so to speak?


Correct.  It is actually the same trick used by both the AMD and Intel CPU's, translating through microcode from the more complex instruction set to a simplified internal one, only we'd be doing it via an external chip.  The 68060 used such a system to it's proto-coldfire core, so much so that my college professor put that the coldfire was just the 060 w/ that translator removed.
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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2007, 03:42:47 AM »
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amigadave wrote:
Quote

downix wrote:
....  The 68060 used such a system to it's proto-coldfire core, so much so that my college professor put that the coldfire was just the 060 w/ that translator removed.


I am trying to wrap my limited CPU knowledge mind around that statement.  68060 proto-coldfire core???  hmmmm ....  I thought that the coldfire came out after the 68060 and it was a stripped down design with less instructions that met the embedded market demands of the time?

The term 68060 proto-coldfire core sounds to me (the average layman) like a part of the 68060 designed to copy a pre-existing coldfire CPU?  Is this an Egg or the Chicken question, which came first, the 060 or the coldfire?  I guess the coldfire could have as the 68000 series was on its way out and Macs were already moving to the PPC, which is why no Macs ever came from Apple with the 060 inside.

Sorry, just rambling to myself.

Fundimentally, the 68060 uses a microcode-retranslation system paired up to a reduced-OPcode core, using hardware to translate the instructions that the core cannot natively run into ones that it can.  The majority do just go through, but a few needed translating.  This is how every high-speed CISC CPU has worked since the 68060. In the intel world the first was the NexGen 5x86, for example.  

What my professor theorized was that despite PowerPC taking over the desktop arena, Mot had enough existing 68k customers to support that it turned an eye to how to advance the m68k without hurting it's new PowerPC strategy.  The Motorola engineers basically removed this microcode stage from the m68060 and with a little work, viola, you have the Coldfire.  That way, their performance customers, such as Apple, wouldn't be upset that Motorola was hurting their migration by releasing faster CPU's of the old-family, but Motorolas embedded customers would still get the product they needed.
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Offline downix

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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 03:29:36 AM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Downix, how many pins does your A500-like expansion port need?

92, but I wasn't using "pins" but a card-edge.
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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 04:49:26 AM »
Quote

HenryCase wrote:
Quote
downix wrote:
Quote
HenryCase wrote:
Downix, how many pins does your A500-like expansion port need?

92, but I wasn't using "pins" but a card-edge.


92, a fair few then! :crazy: :-D
I should have asked a little clearer, but I was actually wanting to know how many I/O pins from the FPGA (or 68000 CPU) your design uses. Could you break that down for me?

2 pins total.  Everything else is off of the CPU bus.
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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2007, 04:14:03 PM »
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AJCopland wrote:
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downix wrote:
92, but I wasn't using "pins" but a card-edge.

If you don't mind me asking what kind of connector are you using? One of the MCA style edge connectors like the ones on the CD32 or one that matches the original A500 more closely?

I was thinking that if you're making a connector design then it's not going to be readily usable by the old A500 expansions due to the 3.3v and 5v issues. So why not make it using a more common and easy to source connector type?

Andy

I have been considering just this.  The slot is 3.3v, but my thinking was to also make an adaptor to turn it into a 5v A500-slot clone.  But first things first, need to find something of at least 92-pins for a connector.  (I need it a lot smaller than the A500's slot to work)
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Re: minimig 4000
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2007, 05:33:00 PM »
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freqmax wrote:
Some developer boards (Digilent) use "Hirose FX2" connectors I think. These could be used?

They could, yes.  TYVM
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