The OpenAmiga Standard

[greenboy]

bloodline : InDeed, it's just a specification... I'm thinking that the Phoenix Greenboy might want to join us?

How nice of you to think of me. I saw this thread late last night but by the time I was caught up with last week's email I was too tired to post here.

But waking, I find myself still thinking as devil's advocate. I was pushing for something like this even before 1999 when Phoenix was born, having watched de facto standards that were freely offered up continue to be stepped around, not for technical inferiority in particular - but because competitors seemed unable to work with a cooperative attitude. And then there are new areas and APIs that we need to have a more complete platform for both users and developers...

What has changed? Is there now a will to make something like this happen, is it practical now to think beyond AOS 3.1 backwards compatibility - and how will that impact time spent on innovation by respective efforts? Is there enough energy available without sidetracking crucial developments? Will time spent on this be rewarded? ... Or will it degenerate for all involved as time goes by, and leave an all-too-familiar sour taste?

I'm sure I sound like a cynic, but the fact that I woke up thinking about this issue should tell you I don't let the cynicism of my observations completely close my mind. As caffiene begins to revive my system, I'd honestly like to feel that discussion here and elsewhere indicates that it is possible to go forward in such a fashion.

I'll read further into the thread and see what THAT does ; }

[greenboy]

mdma : POSIX anyone?

I wish! POSIX compliance has been wonderful for QNX because it opens the door for developers who are already working with it. They can bring projects over to QNX, do ports, be quickly able to work with it.

At the same time, QNX actually has areas it has better ways of doing some things, and POSIX is actually a step backwards from the native API. Lots of the POSIX ports actually seem like shovelware compared to the native programs.

Amiga actually has a major problem or three at the dinner table of POSIX compliance. I mean, where's that fork? ; }

[greenboy]

downix : For the mascot, ya forgot the butterfly wings and fur!

There's a little example for ya! Is the Boing ball going to be found acceptable by owners of all platforms? I'm already wondering this as I look at Eric Schwartz's mascot for Amizilla, which Genesi and Phoenix are considering donating to. Nobdy likes to feel they are second-class citizens but making a symbol that is inclusive can be rather tricky ; }

[greenboy]

Read THS and THIS TOO and tell me if it is possible for developers to all embrace the same Initiative.

Actually, about a week ago I had talked to a developer who is both in Phoenix and on the Open AWeb team, and he came back to me with a No Go on my query of whether the AWeb team would like to present themselves as a participant. I queried because I wanted to see them involved so that I could offer up a matching donation to Amizilla with more confidence that a browser would come out the other end.

Nobody else from that team even bothered write me. I dunno, maybe I was never mentioned as the originator of the query - or maybe I WAS, and that made it impossible to talk about it ; } ...Either way, it doesn't make the picture look rosy for getting all qualified parties speaking WITH instead of TO each other, and dicsussing issues and finding common solutions.

[greenboy]

Well, one could always use a Phoenix logo (we have a new minimalist logo we are considering as replacement for numerous variations on the old one, as well) ; }

- After all, Phoenix was supposed to be about developers crossing boundaries (only some seem able to do this, historically), has welcomed developers from many efforts (but most see another platform besides their own represented and immediately run away, maybe even discouraging others from getting involved - this also has historical precedents).

Honestly, of all the people who have stayed in Phoenix, or come and gone, I have seen very few who could put partisanship aside long enough to actually contribute to a greater common good (though some tried in spite of the pressures and underlying distrust and animosity). By default Phoenix has had to become a one-platform house a couple of times now (so maybe it isn't even realistic to think any other thing could happen) ...

I was thrilled to see Genesi interested in Phoenix and also investing in running multiple OSes on the Pegasos because I felt that it was healthier to have the diversity. But I still see so many people sign up and expect me and a few others somehow deliver them miracles without they themselves putting efforts in to build a structure and mindset and attitude that would make much greater things possible in terms of cooperative strength and sharing the load.

You could say that sometimes I feel I've seen more than I wanted to of human nature ; }

[greenboy]

bloodline : Lets keep this in perspective... All we are doing is defining a set of minimum standards which if develoeprs follow (and most already do wirthout realising it, due to the standards we have chosen) then it will be easy to port their apps from one platform to another... we don;t really ask anything else of them.

I found the Amizilla thing rather relevant because standards are actually a majorly discussed issue in what gets ported, and how.

But I understand your point.

[greenboy]

...But don't take it wrong, everything I've said as devil's advocate: I applaud this effort.

[greenboy]

Those are the kind of rivers running through the world that once made clear you only have muddy thinking to contend with ; }

Didn't Samuel Clemens often allude to this? ; }

[greenboy]

i haven't looked yet but based on past performance I can sure guess who it is.

[greenboy]

Yeah, many of the best development-oriented sites skip the fancy layout entirely and get right to the core material. Simple text, good organization with extensive hyperlinks, pdf white papers when required.

The rest of that stuff is for the whack jobs ; } ...Unfortunately one often has to cater to them ; }

[greenboy]

Oddly enough it's easy talking with people who generally rather agreeable anyway, and who don't feel like total nuclear destruction is the only way to make headway ; }

[greenboy]

Hi Crumb,

Just to sidetrack on development toolchain further - and since you mentioned IDEs: I'd like to see something like Eclipse shaping how development is done ;  }

[greenboy]

mdma, I like the tick as well - it allows the project to have some breathing space from corporate logo overkill. Just promise me that all the supporters of the 'movement' will never make avatars based on whatever you use ; }

While I'm on the subject: actually I feel the Amizilla mascot is kinda messed up for a couple different reasons. But the primary one is that it is supposed to represent an initiative with three main target platforms (all with their own respective signia). And yet there it is: a Boing Ball. Sheesh. But put butterfly wings on lizard girl and some cat fur and whiskers and you have a case of classic confused hormones/genomes adolescent roadkill! So that's no solution either...

Amizillla would be better served by getting a logo and or mascot that carries its OWN non-dependent IDENTITY that would also send the intended message of semi-non-partisanship ; }

[greenboy]

Lots going on; it's likely BBRV hasn't been reading here. I'm keeping an eye on it occasionally, and its likely that I'll be describing it and what I've seen discussed next time we talk on the phone.But you guys could talk about it on the general Phoenix ML and he'd probably see it.