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Offline voxTopic starter

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Wanted: Volunteers to make OS4 and MOS hardware entries for Big Book of Amiga Hardware

Hi guys!

I`ve just recently noticed that there are no  Eyetech Amiga One / Acube SAMs / A-EON X1000
in big book of Amiga HW (great website) Also,  Pegs and Efikas deserve entry too

Its purely hardware, needs hi-res pics, see the style
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/CategoryList.aspx?id=1

All properly formatted pics and info should be sent to info@bigbookofamigahardware.com
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: bloodline;745282
These used Commodity Hardware so, there seems little point adding them to the database...

At least Draco due to AHI/RTG even with 060 falls out that narrow definition. At some point of time
we all started to use commodity RAM, sound and gfx cards, expansion ports, hard drives, out of
Commodore standard, especially when it died. And it was kind of normalization, to leave
some times weird sometimes good Apple/Mac/CBM standards. And happened to all.

There is Minimig, and author accepts these as valid entries, no matter what is your opinion of these boards.

Call it sacrilege, but it will be done. Even PPC Macs if MOS users demand so :-)

Wiki does so
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_models_and_variants#PowerPC-based_Amiga_models_.28post_Commodore.29

AMIGA is also machine running AmigaOS, not just chipset based computer with 68k named AMIGA.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 06:32:53 PM by vox »
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: nicholas;745306
Nobody would.

No it isn't. A PPC motherboard running "AmigaOS" is an AmigaOne not an Amiga. This was clearly laid out and accepted as fact by both parties in the Amiga Inc vs Hyperion trial yet you don't accept it.  Why?

An Amiga is a computer based around a 68k CPU and OCS/ECS/AGA chipset manufactured by CBM or Escom.

One of my closest and dearest friends is one the OS4 developers and even he doesn't say that these PPC motherboards are Amigas.

I rephrase the exponation: AmigaOne boards, Efika, Pegasos ... even being common PPC blah blah hardware deserve an entry in Amiga history, simply because they are part of it. Even they should not be litterally called AMIGA but EFIKA and PEGASOS as well as Samanthas ...

Under same criteria Minimig should be out. Or Draco.

SImilar list is already part of Amiga History, herby would be kindly asked if users do have this hardware to provide hi res images
and update a bit big book with more recent developments.

It sadly does have only a company pages, not concept one realated as AmigaHistory that causes such resistance.
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/everyamiga.html
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 07:30:54 PM by vox »
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: commodorejohn;745322
This should probably be a separate project simply to avoid confusion. A "Big Book of OS4 Hardware" wouldn't leave people who just want to find out about classic Amiga options trying to sift out all the OS4-only stuff.

Your right, I will submit my entry and when have time and proper images of all mentioned boards. Surely, there will be no other such big website.

There is everything Classic exhausted to details, but no matter mention of later developments. And its just few boards. Its right of people not to participate. ACube is already a listed company, why not having Genesi , Eyetech and A-EON?

Amiga Forever is software emulator, UAE based. Emulation doesn`t count in.
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: spirantho;745331
Why not just add a section for "machines designed for AmigaOS 4"? It won't take away anything from the rest of the site; if you don't want to see machines like Sams and X1000s just don't go into the new area.
It's not like there's anything sacred about 68k Amigas, they're all just machines designed to run AmigaOS on, or machines that were chosen to run AmigaOS on in the case of the A1XE: that includes 68k and PowerPC.

I would also include machines like the Peg 1 and 2 and Efika for MorphOS and the AROS machines like the iMica, but I would stop short of including generic PCs and Macs because they're covered by other websites; you have to draw the line somewhere, after all.

Good.Can you do it for at least one board / model that you have? Hi res images and detailed tech description in BBOAH is needed. Thanks.

I would understand If it such resistance was by people that know not of anything that happened after 1994 I would understand. However, cant please all the people ...

Some of these boards like Eyetech and Genesi are already a history, and deserve a bit of preservation, even aren‚t made by CBM simply because it died.

Most of additional CBM Amiga hardware like SCSI, PCMCIA, RTG and AHI cards, PCI add on cards are also Commodity hardware, but aren‚t deleted. Neither are Draco or Minimig.

Point is it was made in connection to Amiga/alike OSs.

Quote
Any hardware post-Escom is not an Amiga nor is any OS made by Hyperion  allowed to be called "Amiga OS", this was made quite clear during the  court case and accepted by both Amiga Inc and Hyperion.

Why is this so hard to accept for some people?       

As well as AmigaOne is board series made to run AmigaOS as sucessor, being extension of Amiga on PPC arhitecture.

Why is this so hard to accept for some people? It was official at the time. Suddenly everyone has amnesia.

Quote
It is with great pleasure that we are able to announce the first new Amiga hardware in over 6 year
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 10:28:15 PM by vox »
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: nicholas;745337
AmigaOne != Amiga
AmigaOS  != Amiga OS

Please answer my questions regarding AROS hardware.

I believe iMica and AresOne deserve the entries, just don`t have the hardware to do high res pictures and entries.

Hardware architecture can and should change.
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: nicholas;745347
Why not my phone? It runs AROS just as well as those machines.

No it doesn`t. That ground is we go for UAE since it runs Android and so on. Really universal thingie, but limited to OS up to 3.9.

To that, AROS/OS4/MorphOS represent step beyond.

Please demonstrate a phone that runs AROS, that would be really nice.

Pollution is not Amiga evolution, you have mixed it up with ecology.

Anyone that had to continue Amiga spirit had to abandon chipsets because it was hard concept to compete to developed gfx/sound market, as well as 68k was effectively replaced with PPC. And MorphOS and AmigaOS 4, in despite all of its difficulties, as well as AROS dedicated machines, serve to purpose with right hardware available at that time.

Why people that are versed in computer history, show need for revisiting commonly known places?
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: nicholas;745349
Yes it does.

http://netcologne.dl.sourceforge.net/project/aros/nightly/20130819/Binaries/AROS-20130819-android-arm-system.tar.bz2

Thanks, didn`t know there is AROS for Android

You are welcome to send an entry if you desire so. However, if I am correct, these are running AROS as VM, not natively, but nevermind.
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: nicholas;745362
Because, as it's name clearly states, The Big Book of Amiga Hardware is a site dedicated solely to documenting Amiga hardware and nothing else.

You have already admitted yourself that OS4 and MorphOS machines are not Amigas, therefore they do not belong on that site. Simple as that.

SUrely, Nyx and Boxer fully fall on that category.

How narrow minded people are.

On industry standards vs Commodore standards and 68k natively

And so do these boards run Amiga PPC/MorphOS PPC programs NATIVELY.

Walker  was first to feature ISA and PCI bus as Zorro replacement as standard  (promoted by Mediator) so moving from CBM standards was clear and real,  as much as Apple moved from Apple specific standards to industry  standards.

It features Nyx which is neither as well as Boxer that also has ISA/PCI and PowerPC.

ISA slots were even present on early Amiga 2000 and Amiga 3000, but usable only via
IBM PC emulation cards.

Amiga stanards were innovative up to Amiga 3000.

Why  leaving NG hardware out of picture, especially that BBOAH features nice  things like scanned commercials and manuals for the boards/systems?

On companies:

I do remember companies from that time, but things evolve.
All those companies left the market, and we were left with mentioned companies
(Eyetech, Genesi, Acube,A-EON)

They have designed hardware specifically for Amiga market that has no other uses
(can run Linux thanks to Linux versatility)

There is no such definition of BBOAH, and obviously no censorship of such kind, beside YOUR interpretation what belongs there.

Once again, website owner accepted to include mentioned boards as long as someone else makes the articles. Needed are people that have such hardware, time, nice camera and that can scan manuals and so on, not people claiming its heresy.

Quote
NG stuff running AROS/OS4/MorphOS could have a dedicated site instead.        

New website would just make a duplicate, for what, just few boards that  are part of Amiga history and recognized as PPC continuation on both  Amiga Wiki pages and Amiga History models page.

Who would host such as OS4/MOS communities are divided,
and why not using existing resources? Because of peoples "Classic idolism"? Linkage to Amiga name?
Half Amiga models presented there bear no Amiga name.

Its not an "Alien infiltration" its showing what we use today, who developed it and that was progress after 1997.
Not preserving our own history, just makes it look like everything ended with CBM. Even those were glory days
there is more to it. Some people decide to stick to Classic only seeing it as "clone OSs" on "clone hardware"
but they fail to see custom home computers ended with Atari and CBM simply because its too expnsive
and non competitive. And yet the same people use same AHI and RTG to utilize cards with additional power,
difference only happened in moving to PowerPC  - that included Motorola and is de facto next generation replacement of 68k.

What a bunch of hypocrisy.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 04:59:57 AM by vox »
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: Megamig;745379
Yes add the X1000.. The description should include...

The X1000 costs more than the original Commodore custom chipset A1000. The X1000 system still a WIP with many features still not implemented. The X1000 manufacturer is more interested moving to next model rather than concentrating on getting the X1000 fully operational.

Website doesn`t include prices, and mentions just the Workbench and Kickstart versions supplied, which do exist for NG systems. Or we should also delete OS4 from Workbench nostalgia?
http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/

Hardware itself is fully fanctual and X2000 is generally just continuation of same line with newer and more avail hardware.

I am really glad you will not do contribs to BBOAH.
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: takemehomegrandma;745424
I think this is a very bad idea; only real Amiga hardware is real Amiga hardware! It's really no more difficult than that! Keep the history clean and pure. This won't mean that any NG efforts won't have a place in the history as Vox claimed, not at all, but the fact is that HW wise they have all more in common with common commodity PC HW (CPU being the biggest/only difference) than true Amiga HW. It's nothing bad with that IMHO, but it's just not the same, it's not Amiga, and this isn't changed by putting a boing ball sticker on top of it.

The line should of course be drawn right at the last true Amiga HW that existed, not before, and certainly *not* arbitrarily after! Amiga HW is Amiga HW, period!

If you would include AmigaOne/Teron, Pegasos, iMica etc, then you should also include *all* AROS native HW, as well as *all* of these:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65055

You should at least be consistent, and not draw the line from certain individuals arbitrary subjective opinions!

But again, only Amiga HW is Amiga HW. It's no more complicated than that!

:madashell:

I understand the logic behind such opinion, however Amiga hardware is whatever runs AmigaOS. I agree AROS makes a situation bit more complex, so for the beginning we ll go without it, with much respect to AresOne and iMica.

This is what current BBOAH managment says

Quote
I see that there's a lot of thread activity regarding NG Amiga in BBoAH.
 My personal defintion of "Amiga hardware" is hardware that can be used with AmigaOS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS)
 Since a lot of entries in BBoAH has been made before I took over, I  can't gurantee that all BBoAH entries are valid according to the above  definition.
Sadly, so far only one AmigaOne XE owner volunteered, as well as I will do my share of work.

However if this website definition includes only OS4 capacable hardware, it excludes Efika and Mac Minis
(and all 72 models ....) altough I am for opting for full MorphOS pages. As long as they do nice pages
for all 72 models ...

Still looking for SAM 460, Efika, Pegasos 1/2, AmigaOne non XE models volunteers.
And whoever wants do to piece of job
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 11:56:09 AM by vox »
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: Duce;745426
Always been the problem with Amigans, Itix.  The "our" mentality.  Like the NG guys and guys that use emulation are the lepers of the bunch.  It's always been part of the Amiga curse and it stinks.

Truth of the matter is, Vox merely asked for help doing sections on the NG stuff.  Instead everyone went into this Holy War mode and went into the usual tirade.  Vox, if you still plan on adding this info (and I hope you do), I'd be happy to help you, as I own a SAM 440 and a MOS Mac (as well as an A1200).

Thanks Duce, can you be counted in? A1200 is there, so there is SAM 440 to do, and if you wish MOS Mac, why not. Like Trevor said, that will be a painful one, but again, yes it works.


Quote
the whole action is nothing but another desperate attempt to crap all  over the genuine amiga fans sandbox to spoil their game if they dont  convert. and this just by individual actionists of some other system. im  sorta tired of being haunted by freaks like that. as usual morphos  users show more reason, integrity and respect to amiga legacy.

Again, no one is forcing anyone to "Conversion" just because existance of newer boards will be added.

I am interested to hear how does more entries harm BBOAH or Classic community?

How does it discrispect anything if its part of the same community, made for it,even
due to licensing reasons mainly, most of that hadrware doesn`t have CBM or Amiga name?

Is it freakish to update a page with current and recent developments?

And why someone that used to be Classic user but has moved to MorphOS / OS4
is not a "genuine user or fan"when it is continuous investment in future of the same kind?

Quote
The question that needs to be asked is, what do people use the database  for. Before for someone starts adding in a lot more "noise" on the site,  it is first important to find out what are the most viewed pages, and  why did people visit them.
Seems like a bit for history and nostalgia, and whereever possible, they provide nice manuals, schematics and other useful material.

Some of the hardware like Pegs and older AmigaOnes as out of production qualify as historical setting, and while still around and we have
manuals (so we don`t dig eBay auctions) should be done.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 11:51:31 AM by vox »
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: takemehomegrandma;745440
Maybe because it's simply wrong?

OMG are you for real? Who are *you* to make decisions and definitions on behalf of an entire community?

:confused:

Or maybe because people are laisy and willing to troll?

No, I am not, I am simply trying to add to BBOAH what were 21st century developments.

No one is community alone, but again, why spitting over something that was developed for that community? Because its not CBM made (quite a lot of expansions aren`t), don`t have Amiga name (again, some latter Amiga clones didn`t have it) or just because OS was ported to PPC so it isn`t 68k?

There is no reasonable justification for exclusion of newer hardware.

We`ll see in time, how many new entries will be made.

First step seems to be important and quite hard :-)

What was the commercial - most friendly community?
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: ddniUK;745326
I applaud your efforts and would be happy to provide AmigaOne X1000 shots for you.

Thanks, AmigaOne x1000 done :-)

Quote from: wawrzon;745280
@nicholas:
+1
@vox

whats the use of it? can you stop stupid actionism? you start to behave  as if amiga were your sole property. have you even asked anybody if your  idea be appreciated? bet not.

No, its not my sole property. Idea is to update BBOAH. Some will appriciate, some will not. That is life. But something will happen after all.
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Offline voxTopic starter

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Quote from: wawrzon;745443
this all has nothing to do with practical reasoning. its just publicity stunt by an os4 vocal supporter. if yox really intended to gather a useful database of technical reference he could open his own site. however se sure wouldnt bother to do that as the only reason is to mix up the os4 systems under genuine amigas and therefore to misguide the unaware visitors, that the hardware in question has anything in common.

there were actions like this before, just to name the famous amiga developers lists where the genuine inventors are named in one breath with sdl porters. its just sad and certainly puts more people off than anything else, but be my guest.

No, its not a holy war against anyone. And why opening new website if there is well established credible source existing?

Hardware mentioned has something in common, its AmigaOS.

List that you mention at Amigaos.net is LIST OF ALL PEOPLE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO AMIGAOS as it well explains. You might find it missleading, but please writte to website owners to separate up to OS 3.9 developers from OS 4 developers - even it actually gives credit to all people that have done something for AmigaOS.

Huh, if people knew PowerPC transition includes so much hate ...

Quote from: Blizz1220;745444
It's the boing ball fever , no known cure for that :)

Vox if you don't include all three camps there will be a war :furious:

As long you include all flavours I'm fine with it :laughing:

Have the war without me, I`ll stop writting here.

Everyone can submit entries on your own, or PM me.

Thanks to Duce and ddniUK for willignes to aid the cause, and do something

Matt_H, Spirantho, Sysadmi, Nostalgiac and few other souls that do understand it :-)

Separate section will be kept so it doesn`t contamite the "pure".

Its the same little boat we do sink, and any idea of positive action is even dragged to mud (Blizz1220 can related to infamous Serbian cauldron in hell :-)

As far as I am concerned, all system should be covered under their sections, but who will do the work (BBOAH doesn`t allow 3rd party images, its best to have that hardware)
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