AmigaOS 4.1 Classic Available To Buy

[eliyahu]

I'd just like to see a fully formed Classic OS4.x, with some up-to-date printer support that should have been added, even if it was only for 2 or 3 new printers, but having said that it's hard to find a new Centronics based printer these days.

However, with USB support built into Classic OS4.1, merely owning a USB adapter card would be the only requirement for new printer support to be realised.

that's something i think most OS4 users would like to see.  the development team changes over time, and, frankly, the printing subsystem is really old.  that said there have been improvements to it, and you'd be surprised what is possible.

for example i purchased an officejet j6480 last year and it works brilliantly.  in fact, coupled with lpr.device and the photosmart driver, i've been using it just as i would from my linux, solaris, and windows machines.

hyperion and the development team are aware of the shortcomings in the printing system and are looking to leverage CUPS as the basis for a new printing system in the immediate future.  based on conversations at amiwest, the priorities are: supporting new and classic systems, a new 3D stack based on openGL and gallium 3D, a new printing system based on CUPS, finally finishing long-outstanding components (such as the updated console.device and USB stack), and substantial changes to execSG to support SMP.

i'd love to have better printer support now, but it's coming.

-- eliyahu

[eliyahu]

At last, an agreement that the printer system is past-its-sell-by-date.

Is the OfficeJet J6480 a PCL based printer?

yup.  it supports both PCL and postscript.  so it's not a good example per se since we've had those drivers for eons -- but i wanted to demonstrate it is still possible to support recent printers nonetheless.

That's encouraging, but how long is this piece of string, if you know?

i wish i knew! :lol:

at amiwest the discussion of developing the new printing system around CUPS was part of ben's talks.  i don't recall there being much detail about schedule, implementation specifics, etc.  there is a post of his talk over on youtube and on robert's video site. in truth i'd like to see more than just hyperion working on getting the imaging situation on OS4 improved.  a modern printing infrastructure coupled with (finally) finishing a native pagestream5 and an OS4-native version of arteffect would be wonderful and a selling point not just for classic users.

OK, so why has no-one mentiioned these printing system parts of the OS as having been discussed, as areas for updating, to interested potential Classic OS4.x users, and other newer hardware ACube owners before, as this is the first time I've heard it mentioned by anyone connected with the development of the Amiga OS.

Good communications might keep people more interested if they knew you were still discussing developing more sections of the OS that have over the years of development fallen behind.

hmmm.  well everyone at AWN knew about this from various show reports; but it's true that, beyond ben's talk at amiwest, there hasn't been much on this via official channels.  that said i really do think communication has improved substantially over the past nine months.  a full-court press at amiwest, the developers' blog, more public participation in the forums (particularly AWN and amigans.net).... it's not ideal, but it is getting better and i think the hyperion folks really do 'get it' that a good communications channel is essential to keeping folks interested.

i adore using OS4 on my SAM, and i really think it is a very enjoyable hobby.  there are certainly some shortcomings, such as the printing subsystem, and it does no harm to discuss them openly.  that's how things get changed.  i think the hesitation in others to talk about known issues stems from folks using them as an excuse to start bashing OS4, hyperion, ben hermans, pick your favorite.

in any case i look forward to update3 and beyond. :hammer:

-- eliyahu

[eliyahu]

I don't see that it's a PostScript printer, just PCL, PJL, and PML as far as I can make out, but it's worth knowing that it works OK with the printer drivers we already have.

Which printer driver do you use with OS4.0 for the HP J6480 OfficeJet?

i'm currently using the photosmart driver available on o4depot coupled with lpr.device for networking printing purposes.  it's a bit of a pain to have to hand-edit the IP address, but once it's done, it works like a charm.

Can I take it that the scanner won't work under OS4.0 with any scanning software we currently have within the OS or that works with OS4.x?

good question.  i've never tried since i tend to use the web interface for scanning anyway.  it might work with SCANdal, but i doubt it.

Are you saying it was more of a throw about of ideas, 'hot air' rather than a time-schedule to get the printing system up-to-date? If so, then the printing system may well be languishing for some time waiting for some meaningful work to be done on it.

no, they were actually announcing their development plans for the near-term.  it's just that i don't recall them discussing dates for delivery.  ben made clear that it was something that hadn't been worked on in some time, and that he and the team wanted to see progress on the printing front to bring it up to modern standards if for no other reason than to support recent printing hardware.

Ahh, PageStream 5, OOh, Yeah, but Deron Kazmaier seems to be struggling with the MUI implementation, along with other bugs/problems, that he is not too familiar with. I believe he has someone who is prepared to work on the MUI side of PageStream that knows MUI better than Deron himself, but I believe that the server infrastructure is not in place as yet for the work to be started as yet.

i remember him asking around for someone to help with (or take over) development due to his difficulties with MUI.  i don't know if that was OS4-specific, though, as the request was also made on morphzone.org.  in any case substantial MUI fixes and updates are coming with 'update 3' according to various developers.

Well until Karlos mentioned CUPS, and you mentioning it as well, that was the first I'd heard of work on the printing side of the OS, but then making the trip to AmiWest to hear the discussion would have been too far for me to consider as viable, as I'm in the UK.

hey, it's hard on me and i live here. :lol:

Well if Hyperion 'get it' they haven't gone out of their way to 'show it', as there's still very little support from them for Classic OS4.1, no online FAQ for Classic OS4.1, as I believe was offered on their blog pages,and no discount for those, like me, who got 'burnt' with the Classic OS4.0 release.

i'm not sure they have ever offered discounts to previous customers.  who knows, maybe they'll give you one if you ask nicely? :cool:

there is good and plentiful documentation included in the retail package, but nothing that i can see online.  support is something i'd like to see improved, but given the small size of the community, the help available on the fora, and the fact that neither the morphOS team nor the AROS developers offer formal support either, i doubt we'll see anything on that front for a while.  if the X1000 attracts a bunch of folks, though, they may need to.  it's something we can continue to suggest, and, as paying customers, they take our views seriously.

It would be a nice, and fair gesture to acknowledge their poor quality release of Classic OS4.0 and offer some discount to those users who are prepared/want to upgrade to Classic OS4.1. I for one got very, very little use out of Classic OS4.0, and I'm sure, from what other people have said, who bought Classic OS4.0, I'm not alone in that thought.

i'm sorry to hear that.  it sounds like folks relying on native, i.e., AGA graphics did not have as enjoyable experience as though with discrete external video cards.  but from what i have garnered from friends who used both OS4 and v4.1 with the subsequent updates, that it is a much, much improved product.  i can't comment directly since i only joined the amiga community last year with the purchase of a SAM.  this year's amiwest is to focus on 'normal' usage of classic and NG amiga kit, so maybe the videos that come from the conference will give you a better idea of whether the new version is worth your time (and money).

i can only say that OS 4.1u2 is fantastic on my SAM.

I take no pleasure in 'having a go' at anyone from Hyperion or any of the betatesters, all of whom must have spent many hours/days,etc., working to improve Classic OS4.1, but some of it doesn't feel like a full product, yet they still want to charge a full product price. I feel that those involved on OS4.x, for whichever piece of Amiga OS intended, hardware ought to know what it feels for those of us outside the 'closed circle'

Yes, but I, and I'm sure many others, want to be assured in paying £100 for the Classic OS 4.1 that there will be updates to it, and need to know that it's worth what's being asked for it. Because, at the moment I feel cheated out of the value of what I paid for Classic OS4.0, as I feel none of us received a genuinely usable product with the last Classic OS4.0 release.

i know.  i wasn't including you in the comment about folks 'having a go' at hyperion, et al.  it seems to me your experience with OS 4.0 was so bad that you would have wanted a refund.  i don't feel it is a 'closed circle' any more, though.  much of what is being planned is being discussed publicly these days.  i think the real issue here is that, unlike windows or OS X or linux, you can't just pop into your local big box retail outlet and try it out for yourself.  this was very frustrating for me since purchasing a SAM and OS4 was not an inexpensive proposition, and relying on fora and youtube videos only helps so much. :lol:

perhaps there is someone that frequents these boards within driving distance that wouldn't mind you trying OS 4.1 on their system?  if you lived in connecticut, you'd be welcome to swing by me -- but then again, i don't have classic hardware.

i hope someone from hyperion is reading all of this, but if not, try reaching out to them and see if they are willing to help with a discount or offer a refund guarantee or something.  the worst they can say is 'no,' so it's worth a shot.

let us know what you end up deciding.

-- eliyahu

[eliyahu]

BTW, Hyperion just opened official support forums:
Article about it here:

http://www.hd-zone.com/2011/06/hyperion-opens-official-support-forums/

splendid. an official channel for support from hyperion is an excellent and welcome addition to the corporate site.  please thank whomever opened those fora to the general user public.

-- eliyahu