Why did 1mb RAM make such a big difference on Amiga games and not on x86 games?

[KingTutt]

If you ever owned an Amiga 500, you will probably recall buying that 512K memory expansion card, to play some real treats like most of the Cinemaware[/url] range of games (It came from the Desert, Wings!) and some others like the original and venerable SimCity.

It was probably more noticable when playing SimCity. I could never run the 512K version. It was aweful compared to the full color 1024K version. Of course both were shipped in the same box.

But my question is why did the 512K upgrade prove to be more worthwhile, than say upgrading the same RAM on the x86 series? Sure PeeCees back then were appalingly crude and horrible inefficient machines... much like today! lol! But really how did Amiga make use of every little bit of RAM that was thrown on it? It was like it squeezed out every last kilobyte it was handed. A truly efficient beast. This of course allowed for games to be run off 1 floppy disk, a true marvel of its time.

Will the same hold true with the next generation of Amigas? These days you can throw on 1gb of RAM and not see any difference from 256mb (Not unless you scan images with photoshop or do heavy video editing/capturing) Windows XP is a real resource hog. And it does absolutely nothing new or different than can't already be achieved on Windows 98. So whats going on there?

I think and hope, AOS4 will work on 64mb or 128mb the way XP works on 1gb ram. There's really no need for so much ram - or at least the inefficient use of it. The future shouldn't be about slapping on more memory, to hide inherent programming incompetencies.

[KingTutt]

Didn't IBM have closed systems to begin with too?

Anyway I think bloated coding is not going to do much for x86 machines in the long run. Sooner or later there is going to be a point were all this bloatware will bite x86 computers in the ass. I think it may be sooner than later, as 64bit machines are just around the corner. As for whether m$ will try to make backwards compatibility native or emulated is another question altogether.

One thing is certain, all that sloppy coding will haunt bgates the day x86 users move forward to 64bit machines. I hear 64bit h/w is less forgiving to inefficient programming. You only need look at the woeful problems encountered by Intel with their 64bit desktop prototype chips, which is why a desktop solution seems far away. Microsoft are also holding off on a 64bit desktop OS for as long as they can.

[KingTutt]

Ok, thanks guys. I never took into account how early x86s poor performance was due to an OS that had to account for many configurations (thanks Kenny R), and the necessity of preloading memory resident tasks into RAM. (thanks Hammer)

I had an inkling of this being the reason. Just needed someone to reassert this.

Ok so its clear now to me that Amiga's tighly integrated architecture (OCS, ECS & AGA) gave it a tremendous edge over PCs since 85 and onwards. I guess you could liken Amiga to a highly specialised console with an OS and computer peripherals. But man what a machine eh!

Still I see it a real shame that we couldn't continue with Amiga's legacy of efficient coding. But is it really good practise to be resource wasteful with sloppy code?!?! I personally think it should be a crime punishable by death if that same approach is adopted for the Amiga OS4 platform. hehe.

BTW can't AOS4 boost say an A1@G4 800Mhz to feel like a A1@1600Mhz. I mean an Athlon 1800+ is really just running at 1533Mhz yet is comparable to a P4 1800Mhz. Can't the same hold true for the G4 running Altivec(sp?) specialised instructions sets and OS4 taking advantage of that?

[KingTutt]

Hammer wrote:
What happens if Quake III/Unreal Tournament/MS Office XP/Star Office 6.0/Netscape 7 gets ported over to AmigaOS 4.0?

I'm sure Hyperion or whichever Amiga software company that does the port will be wary of the strong code efficient ethics of amiga programming. I trust they will not follow in the same path as m$. Most of these apps have redundant code anyway, since we don't use MMX/SSE/3Dnow code, nor do we have a few dozen different mainboards to support.

I think we are still safe from bloatware whichever way you look at it. The only hitch is, how many programmers nowadays have gotten to complacent to care... i sure hope not any who are serious about Amiga coding.

[KingTutt]

Hammer wrote:

I trust they will not follow in the same path as m$.

In a desktop business environment, legacy software support is important. MS couldn’t afford to alienate its (cashed up) business customers.   One of the main strength of MS Window’s marketing ideology is its legacy software support.

IF required, MS can deliver a cut down MS Windows 2K with little legacy software support (i.e. refer to X-BOX's OS package).  

since we don't use MMX/SSE/3Dnow code, nor do

PPC G4 (and soon to be released(H2 2003) PPC 970) does have it’s own streaming instructions btw…

==========================================
Some minimal configurations:
LynxOS: 150kb
BlueCat Linux: 260kb
Windows XP Embedded: 5Mb

Some typical configurations:
LynxOS: 250kb
Linux: 500kb
Windows XP Embedded: 15Mb
==========================================
Reference

Agreed. But with only 3 mainboards to support, the bloatware is potentially less. Not the hundreds of motherboards and CPUs spanning almost 3 decades for the x86 series.

Anyway my greatest concern for OS4 is that the methodologies of good efficient coding of the once great classic systems, may be lost with this newer generation of windozzze programmers. Think about it for a second. A whole generation has grown up with windows 95/98/2000/XP, probably never of having heard of the amiga or any commodore machines for that matter. None of them will have the slightest clue on what assembly language is, and probably scoff at the mention of it anyways.

Hopefully us true amigans are plentiful enough to show them young 'uns the way to true programming enlightenment, lol!

Sloppy coding and bloatware could become the greatest travesty to the amiga platform. Jay Miner would certainly roll in his grave on that one.

[KingTutt]

I agree, PPC.

The myth that AmigaOne will be some horribly under-resourced, underpowered and unenviable platform is just pure and unadulterated crap. Its small footprint OS will show the world AGAIN, that alot can be achieved with so little. Amigas legacy of efficient coding should and WILL be resurrected by OS4. We can only pray that others will follow suite with their own OS4 programs and say no, to overbloated s/w.

We owe it to ourselves and we owe it to the Amiga platform... Hell! we OWE it to Jay Miner and his dream of fun computing. Competition be damned, we don't care how big and unmoving M$ is. And we sure as hell don't care about the standards of today, the promotion of sloppy coding by big companies, to drive the development of h/w further. What we do care about is a solid platform which works and is enjoyable and not lifeless or uninspiring like certain cumbersome and overbloated OSes of today. We care about a certain joy in computing that was lost a while ago, and we care enough to resurrect it by whichever means possible. We care enough to stick by it after 10yrs of no development and no Commodore. And if it takes another 10 years I will still be here, because as long as I remain unsatisfied with the alternatives I will remain Amigan.

My resolve is unchanged since '87 and my resolve will likely remain so till 2087 (that is if I'm still around and tucked away in a flask with electrodes running from my brain. lol!)

[KingTutt]

Revener wrote:
@ Kin Tutt
Yeah gogogogo I'm totally with you on this.

Will be in Amiga til the end of time
even though I'm mostly a gamer and only uses my Amiga sporadicly these days (mainly coz I never upgraded it past a 030 and been waiting for my friend to find his broken A4000 so I can have his PPC card for free ;-) ).

Good to see I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness. I am not asking for much. Just a return to my beloved OS with a solid and proper PPC port. Everything else will fall into place after that. Sure, Hyperion will be doing the hard yards to get us to point A, but really... once the platform is launched it will be the community who will take on the marathon torch.

I just want to see those Courier letters
Amiga inc 1985-2003 at the load up screen with the sky or royal blue blue background and I am sold!

Bring back the red amiga mouse pointer I say!