SSD Drive in Amiga detection issue

[matt3k]

I just purchased a Mercury SSD 60 GB drive and the Acard ARS-2000SUP SATA to SCSI adapter.

I get a unit is not a disk (type 3) when I read the drive in hdtoolbox.

I have it hooked up to my warp engine.  I have tried turning on Parity via the acard.  

Sometimes it doesn't see the drive.  I have tried 3 different hd tool boxes , 3.1, 3.9, and the one that came with the warp engine.

The 3.1 version is the only one I can get into read the drive and give the error, the warp engine refuses to see it, 3.9 won't let you select the drive stating it isn't required type.

Any ideas???

[matt3k]

Thanks for all the help.  Silly, I thought it would have worked as easy as other adapters I have used for mating different technologies.  Especially since mousehouse reviewed one on this site... http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59096

Lesson learned.

The OWC drives auto trim in firmware, that why I have been using them.

I will try Mechware, he has been great help in the past, that is a great idea thank!

[matt3k]

Here is what I have learned:
- Acard adapter has the latest bios.
- Acard and Mercury SSD work fine together in my pc via PC SCSI Card.
- Neither Warp Engine SCSI or A3000 SCSI even see the device anymore.
- Tried almost every combination on the Acard to get it recognized except The WE jumpers.

To my logic since:
- Mousehouse got this device working in his 3k
- The Acard and SSD work in a pc

It should therefore work...

Mech suggested I get the patch from aminet for optical drives and HDToolbox.  I will test that.  

Any ideas out there???

[matt3k]

Never thought this would have been an issue since mousehouse reviewed it and since the work perfect together in a pc.  If a pc SCSI card can read the disk through the Acard perfectly, I really would have thought it would work perfect in the Amiga...

Doesn't make sense, everytime I got a drive to work in a pc in the past it always would work in an Amiga...  But it doesn't work so go figure...

I'm not sure sending the duo to anyone will bring different results, if someone can give me a reason why there Amiga SCSI or Warp Engine SCSI is different then mine, I'm game...

I have another mercury SSD in my powerbook running MOS and she is fine.  The other drive is a PATA not a SATA though.  Perhaps Amiga based SCSI isn't compatible with Acards conversion of this particular drive???

[matt3k]

Quick update...

I tried a Sata hard disk to see if would be recognized on either controller without any luck.

The cables work with good old fashion scsi hd's so I know they work.

I can put my ide controller in to see if I can read a ide drive but I don't see a point in it.

Anyone out there have a sata ssd drive in an Amiga 3000 or warp engine out there?

[matt3k]

@mousehouse

Thanks for the reply and the great review.

The drives you tested and didn't work, did they even show on the SCSI bus?  I have tried only one SATA Hard disk and my mercury SATA SSD, neither show up in the SCSI inquiry.

The work just dandy with the Acard in a pc though...

[matt3k]

@mechy

I don't think it is a firmware issue since my PC with a PCI SCSI card recognized my mercury SATA SSD without any problems.  So I know the combination works.  So the issue has to be with the Amiga's.  

Windows Vista could see the full capacity and I could have formatted it.  I can't think what the difference would be from my PCI LSI SCSI card and the ones on the Amiga, but that is where the issue has to be to my thinking...

[matt3k]

I'm afraid not all SCSI controllers use the same Integrated Circuit controller chips nor the same firmware.  This exists outside the Amiga world to that of the PC and Mac.  Others in this forum have different hardware, and might be able to pin down your issue.  But there are two reasons to accept that you cannot use your Mercury SSD on your A3000D and your Warp Engine: an SSD is overkill for the Amiga, the speed doesn't matter because the interface will always limit it, CF cards are just as quiet and cheaper, and the amount of storage is more than any Amiga setup will ever use.  Secondly, the Amiga is a 20+ year old machine and very few other 20+ year old computers can still keep up with what the Amiga can still handle at her age:  USB, Internet/Web access, PCI graphic cards, and others.

Find a good use for your hardware and try to enjoy it.  Many people just trash old computers and move on.

Thanks for the nice advice...  I already use my Amiga for many functions and enjoy it...

I agree with the overkill, but anything except CF will be overkill for my amiga.  I had a quantum atlas 10k drive, not because it was overkill but because I could buy it brand new and it would provide years of trouble free operation.  The atlas lastest for 10 years and was on for most of it's life and most importantly gave the most speed that my controller could handle...

I have old scsi drive lying around but they are all 20 years old and are bound to be problems many of than give almost 8mb/second for throughput but I don't want headaches.  

The only reason I didn't go with CF is that they can't give me 8mb/s and I enjoy the speed of the WE SCSI.  If anyone can point me to CF that gives that kind of speed, I will give it a try.

To you last point I must agree,  this device seems to have broken the SCSI standard.  I will contact the manufacturer to see what might be done.  This is the first time in history that I have every found the scsi standard broken.  Goes to show what a great standard it is...

I will try locating older sata drives to see if they can be detect on the scsi bus, but I have a feeling that even a incompatible drive would still be listed with a scsi inquiry...

Regards,

[matt3k]

Its not a scsi issue, its a acard firmware issue more than likely, as stated the acard scsi to ide bridges are not compatible with everything out there and the firmwares came out long before many pata SSD's.

mech

Thanks Mech!   I have to agree at this point that is must be firmware.  Really strange though that a scsi inquiry doesn't list anything on the amiga...

I will contact the manufacturer and see what happens...  Funny that an old LSI scsi controller reads it find and the Amiga's won't.  To my logic a scsi inquiry is universal and is impossible to break, apprarently they broke it if an amiga's attached to it... wierd...

[matt3k]

@Danbeaver
Thanks for the generous offer.  I'm going to see if I can get an ssd solution working first.  If I want I'll take the drive.  Again thanks...

@Mousehouse
Do you remember if the drives that didnt work came up on a scsi inquiry?

Thank you for you efforts.  I really appreciate the help.

Good luck with your ultimate ppc project.

[matt3k]

Update:

Put Acard w/ssd in Peg II via LSI PCI Card.  I was recognized instantly, I selected RDB and installed PFS 3 Direct SCSI.  

It was now readable on my stock 3000 via Amiga SCSI.
My Warp Engine still can't see it.  I wonder if the NCR scsi is the issue?  I will try a new cable just to make sure, but other devices on that ribbon cable have worked just fine...

Will keep you posted...

Seem like a RDB has to be setup first, not sure why that would effect a scsi inquiry but at this point not sure it matters...

[matt3k]

Update:
The SSD is recognized with my stock 3000 with BB4 with the scsi.device 43.45.
HDToolBox sees it perfectly, but will not install with a error is description 4 message.
HDToolInst that came with PFS3 let's me partition and load a RDB on to it, all perfectly.  Upon reboot it loses the setting and the RDB and it's like starting over.

It's progress with it being recognized, but still not there yet...


Any ideas???

[matt3k]

You got me thinking Dan,  I will format and configure in my Peg II since MOS 3 support pfs, perhaps that will be the best route.  Or maybe SFS, don't know if it's MOS SFS and PFS is compatible with AOS 3.x...

Should I use the Mask settings for Amiga SCSI on the LSI in the Peg II?

[matt3k]

Thanks for all the help guys.

I was able to get it to work just fine on the 3000 scsi.  Mech was right that the cable lengths and proper term was critical.  She works just fine, smooth and fine.  

Unfortunately the warp engine flat out refuses to see it.  So the acard must not like the ncr scsi.  Shame really...

Mousehouse:  Did you ever get a chance to test your acard with your warp engine?

[matt3k]

Final update:
Tried a different 68 to 50 adapter (with proper termination) and it still will not work in the Warp Engine.  So the Acard is NOT compatible with the Warp Engine SCSI.  Don't waste your time if you buy the Acard trying to fiddle with it to work in the Warp Engine.

Again thanks to Mech, I will visit your store in payback once I sell my Peg II.