Wither Natami?

[Atheist]

Okay, lets examine the differences:

Amithlon. No ECS/OCS/AGA emulation.

UAE/AmigaForever: No AGA


HOWEVER!

There is 180 megs of underlying OS needed for the emulators, on 1,000 plus variants/configurations of HW, AND can true rad: reboots be done?

Emulators also depend on the underlying OSs grumbling stumbling of other activities it does. Boy, you should see my windross xp Pro crawl when I SW disable internet access, and fail to work when I turn off swapping.

The FPGAs, I would call nearly true Amigas, only slightly below ASICs as what they both do is AMIGA and ONLY AMIGA related.

As for cycle exact, the NatAmis should ALL be cycle exact ...... TO EACH OTHER. That is paramount! That was one of the true purities of Amiga. Generally there was cycle exact across a huge amount of machines.

Of course, true cycle matching is ONLY when the same list of programs are being run on the same machines doing the same tasks.... well a video game running on the same HW and no other SW multitasking in the background.

Amiga had the unique situation of being a home computer, having an extraordinary USER based OS (all privileges given to the USER), extraordinary custom HW, and having MOST machines operate identically (relatively) always as Playstaion or Nintendo consoles do to each their own.

The only gripe I have with minimig is the lack of full ram of 2 megs chip, 8 megs fast.


NatAmi60 will prove to be the ULTIMATE COMPUTER* only surpassed by an ASIC running at 2.8+ GHz.

* It's just a fluke that the ultimate computer is an AMIGA.

There is a superior to this version even, and without going multicore SMP. Seems there's no way to go SMP.

Although, how about running AOS3.0 in every core? Separately, four AOSs running at the same time. You could even be running different versions in different custom chipsets. They talk to each other as though they're other computers through fake parallel port links. Just divide up the tasks to different CPUs on your own. Run Pagestream on 1 CPU, a rendering program on another, a paint program in another, etc. A custom memory controller would separate the ram pools so the CPUs don't need to keep track of not overwriting other CPUs data. A fatal crash even couldn't write over another CPUs address space as long as the memory controller absolutely knew which CPU was sending data to ram and never allowing the data to cross ram segments.

How about one core monitoring the others, and if a guru meditation occurs, it can be rebooted from that CPU, automatically? TRY to make a self recovering computer, quadruple uptimes.....


For those who haven't seen it yet, Still Alive, on YouTube.

ONLY AMIGA makes it possible!!!!!!!

[Atheist]

CodeSmith wrote:
@Atheist

Um, Gunnar has said many times that "cycle exact" is meaningless when applied to the amiga.  There are too many permutations of CPU and chipset, so most Amiga software makes allowances for it.

Hi CodeSmith,

Actually, I was primarily referring to all the first model of NatAmi60s would be cycle exact to each other. The ones released next year might not be, but they will to their runs.

While the different Amiga 500s with same CPU and OCS say, also might not be cycle exact, due to different revisions of Paula, Denise etc. they were much more similar than the hundreds of different components that kept appearing on the PC side.

[Atheist]

Hi bloodline,

Last time I looked into AmigaForever, they said they were working on AGA and it was available but not reliable yet.

Thought they gave up on AGA as it was too taxing on PCs.

[Atheist]

bloodline wrote:

Then the last time you looked must have been in 2002...

AGA isn't taxing, it is only a very small improvement over ECS... The big problem with AGA is that it was a massive kludge and was poorly documented compared to the very well known OCS.

Hi bloodline,

256 colours of 16 million over 32 and 32 more shades of the first 32 from 4096 in extra half bright mode is "only a very small improvement"?


You'd make a TERRIFIC supervisor. "What? Only three levels of the pyramid built this month? Heads are gonna roll!"

[Atheist]

I believe, and have said this before, that AI has a better chance of progressing on a low overhead OS system and FLEXIBLE system as AOS is.

No memory protection and self modifying code I think are assets to the field of Artificial Intelligence. Only drawback of AOS is that it can't use the entire 4 GBs of address space for SW.

64 bit is desirable, but non-implementable without a recompile. Besides, there isn't a 64 bit 68000 series CPU.

NatAmi's Achilles Heel is 256 Megs fast, 16 MB chip vs 1.5 GBs fast, 16 Megs chip ram and also not being able to do 1080P in the 1st run of the motherboard. It should also have a MIDI port too. USB MIDI may not react properly if that bus is flooded.

NatAmi60 may be the first wristwatch computer.

Imagine running all Amiga SW in a voice activated watch!!!!!

[Atheist]

Correct this statement if it's wrong:

AOS is the ONLY OS that can restart running in RAD: independent of ANY external devices.*


* Devices being: floppy disk, hard disk CD, DVD, CF card, swap files, etc. etc.

[Atheist]

SamuraiCrow wrote:
@Atheist

The RAD: reboot option will not be needed badly if the Natami comes with a big enough FLASH memory for a HUGE KICKSTART that holds most of the OS.  You're RAD: device will only need the s: directory since most of the rest of the OS will be running from the Kickstart.

Hi SamuraiCrow,

That is an excellent option.

That, and when NatAmi60 become an ASIC, the boot would be brought to the amount of time it takes to do a diagnostic check of ram and whatever else at boot up, to maybe about 1.5 seconds!!! Awesome!

[Atheist]

B00tDisk wrote:

Any expert system that couldn't keep itself from overwriting its own memory would be effectively worthless.  Every thought would essentially be a tapeworm, destroying data as it was created.

Hi B00tDisk,

And yet my Amiga 2000 using AOS1.3.3 runs?

And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

[Atheist]

Piru wrote:

No memory protection and self modifying code I think are assets to the field of Artificial Intelligence.

How exactly?

Hi Piru,

Software collects data and makes decisions on what to do, but how about generating new code to make decisions from logic as opposed to merely collecting data and reacting? Saving these new program segments and running them. Then perhaps joining some together. This is how I think AI could work.

Also, I think that all software should have the capability to examine all address space if it wants to. Something about limiting this in any way seems to violate my sense of empowerment through knowledge, or restriction of, making certain things not possible. I want to be able to locate a string in memory, and even if it's in another program, be able to change it. I want and expect absolute control of MY computer. Other users? No, there's only me, myself and I, and that's a total of 1.

So, I can't say when it would be useful, but I want the long hand of one program to be able to interfere in another's activity, because it opens new avenues of operation, but this behavior must be used in the most careful of ways to avert meltdown.

[Atheist]

alexh wrote:

Atheist wrote:
Correct this statement if it's wrong:

AOS is NOT the only OS that can restart running in RAD: independent of ANY external devices. ;-)

My Atari ST is happily using one.

Hi alexh,

When I used TOS, I couldn't even find the RAM: disk???

So, is Atari ST just as good as AOS then? I think not!

[Atheist]

I

alexh wrote:

Atheist wrote:
When I used TOS, I couldn't even find the RAM: disk???

Where did you look?

Hi alexh,

I looked on the screen, and couldn't see an icon for it.

Atheist wrote:
So, is Atari ST just as good as AOS then?

Apples and Oranges mate. You can use a recoverable RAM disk though.

Wasn't apparent that there was one.

Although, I may have had an older version of TOS that didn't have it yet, and I was using it casually and only for a couple of days.

Can the OS be completely copied over, and a reboot done with then the system disk not being accessed anymore like on Amiga?

[Atheist]

the_leander wrote:

amigadave wrote:
@the_leander,

Seems your wish has been answered.  He is posting all over the place now (I don't know anything about your "invited one").

Less a wish and more of a calculated risk in saying his name  ;-)

As for invited, I meant that in the same way as "speak the devils name and he shall appear"...

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Hi amigadave, the_leander,

Actually, I was off the internet for about 3 days and when I got on saw this thread out at 12 pages, and having only read three pages, replied in it. It was a fluke (but accurate) that you had made that comment about me.

[Atheist]

the_leander wrote:

Atheist wrote:

B00tDisk wrote:

Any expert system that couldn't keep itself from overwriting its own memory would be effectively worthless.  Every thought would essentially be a tapeworm, destroying data as it was created.

Hi B00tDisk,

And yet my Amiga 2000 using AOS1.3.3 runs?

Something that isn't an AI.

Hi the_leander,

No, but for the obvious reasons of, not fast enough, not enough bits CPU and not enough RAM/hard drive space.

Although, 1 Gig and a fast CPU in a NatAmi60 and 1 terabyte of storage, I think that the realm of AI can be grazed if not fully realized.

Atheist wrote:
And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

There are perfectly good reasons for having a tiered system of access on a computer, stopping people with too little knowledge to understand and just enough to do damage is one of them.

If it's what you want, great, fantastic and more power to you. Thing is though, the rest of the world, that being one with a clue of course, want their *own* accounts, customised to their particular likes and dislikes without having to worry about other people using the machines preferences.

Well, "the rest of the world" have 3 OSs to choose from, may they compute in peace.

[Atheist]

B00tDisk wrote:

Atheist wrote:
Hi B00tDisk,

And yet my Amiga 2000 using AOS1.3.3 runs?

Please explain, using all your powers of comprehension and computer knowledge, how AOS 1.3 is in fact an AI or expert system.

Hi B00tDisk,

Simple, it's not an AI system. I was mostly concerned with the statement that MP is a crisis and systems without don't work, when clearly there is a computer that works, and doesn't use it.

As for expert system, I attribute it's flexibility and manipulability to that qualification.

And yes, why chastise me for being selfish and wanting a ONE USER computer/OS? PC is for Personal Computer not Politically Correct, and sharing my toy with all comers.

Psh.  You don't even understand what multiuser is about.

I don't care about it, as there are 3 OSs available with it, and I don't want to use them because they don't truly offer what I want. Why are they bigger than 80 Megs? They're no good.

[Atheist]

shoggoth wrote:

Like someone said, it seems like you don't like memory protection just because AOS lacks this functionality.

Hi shoggoth,

Yes, I don't like it because it wasn't originally implemented, so I guess it wasn't critical to have.

Also, MP slows a system down, and with the pathetic speed we have available to us as it is, we need every cycle we can get.

ALSO, isn't it true that most SW would need to be recompiled if AOS went MP?

You got access to all the source code of all the AOS sw out there for that to be done?

In addition to all of that, who's rewriting AOS3.1 to use MP anyhow?