Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

[dammy]

It's quite obvious people don't want to put down an advance order pre-payment from the poll results, and who can blame them?

Less work for Barry, who can complain about that?

[dammy]

Work out an agreement with the Natami project so folks can get that in a properly branded Amiga case.

If the Amiga Community was behind it, I bet they would.  But where are the 500 people wanting it?

[dammy]

Take a look at the Natami forums if you think we're a hard sell. I don't rate CUSA having any chance of convincing the Natami team.

Pretty sad that the online Amiga Community can't get a quick 500 people together on a single project to support.

[dammy]

Oh so thats what this is about, put this out there so you can blame the community for cusa's failures? After saying we're not their target market then come begging for pre-orders then blame the community when its more BULL**** from cusa and nothing happens.

Come begging to make stuff at dead costs?  No one comes begging to make a new product at dead costs.   Haters have to hate, I suppose.  That is one hell of a deal they offered you all, and you can't come up with 500  votes to call their hand?

[dammy]

Thanks for confirming my suspicion on how this CUSA scheme was designed to work from the beginning.

So call their hand then.  There is 500 people left in the online Amiga Community, isn't there?

[dammy]

you were bashing this or better kind of deals around here long enough, do i have to hint yet? so why are you suprised if now cusa proposition is met with scepticism, even if this is your prefference. if they want to make some product addressing this community then they may want to go ahead and show off as they did with the 64 replica.

They do have plans for their Commodore Amiga series.  This isn't about what C=USA wanted, this is about offering the online Amiga Community a chance to get something they wanted at dead cost.

[dammy]

Why is a company like Commodore USA so needy for 500 people to invest in their little project. Surely if they were in the great position they claim to be in they wouldnt need that.

You have it reversed.  This is not C=USA's little project, this is offering the online Amiga Community a chance to get projects done at dead costs that online Amiga Community wanted.  You don't want the chance of buying something that the majority of the online Amiga Community wanted at dead cost, you most certainly don't have to do a thing.  I find it kinda funny that those who are most vocal on these threads are the most likely to never to participate and just want to throw dung around in a hate fest.

[dammy]

And that of course, is the golden question.

Honestly Dammy, the best thing CUSA could do now is sell on the Amiga name to Hyperion and make Commodore PCs to their hearts content. At least that would save them some hate mail.

Not at all.  The best thing for C=USA is to ignore the haters and continue on.  There is no reason to yield to a bunch of online haters that total to less then a hundred people.   This offer is a prime example that the haters will never be satisfied and should be ignored entirely because they will always spew their hatred regardless what is done for the online Amiga Community.

[dammy]

This post is a joke. Seriously, c'mon!

What does the Amiga community want? You shouldn't even have to ask if you care enough to read these forums.

Perhaps what is what the online Amiga Community is willing to actually buy is in serious doubt.   Look at the A1X1K and see if anyone thinks this is going to be a profitable venture for A-EON.

What we want is a new Amiga. Not a bunch of empty promises. Make a new Amiga, be innovative about it like the original was, make the price reasonable, and put it on the market. Then we'll buy into it.... maybe.

That's really encouraging for a few hundred possible sales.

Don't ask 500 members to financially support your joke of a company. That's your responsibility, not ours.

That is where you have it wrong, the 500 people are going to be supporting the Amiga Community since C=USA is doing this all at dead costs.  You act like C=USA is going to be making a profit off those 500 sales, they are not.  They are offering this deal as a reach out to the online Amiga Community as a peace offering, and it seems their hands are getting slapped for their effort.  The online Amiga Community wants something, whines about something, and then given the chance to get it, at dead cost, they piss all over the person offering them a hell of a deal.

We are doing just fine without you. You want to change that?

Reality check for you, the online (and offline) Amiga Community is not doing well.  It is withering away with fewer and fewer Amiga users each year.  If it was doing just fine, Genesi would still be making Pegs and PPC EFIKAs, SAM440/460s would be seeing annual sales of thousands of units.  Look how many active posters on AO have left over the past five years. I doubt you can find a new PPC EFIKA, let alone a Peg anymore.  SAMs are not flying off the shelf and I doubt a total of a thousand have been sold over all the years since SAM 440 was released.

Then get busy and make a new Amiga that we'll want to buy.

Oh, they are making their own Commodore Amiga series, do out  in the second or third quarter of 2012.  You see they will be selling those for profit, unlike the offer they gave to the online Amiga Community which is at dead cost as a favor to the online Amiga Community.

[dammy]

Dammy lets get this straight. IF Commodore USA where to produce a product that did everything they promised with the communities

C=USA didn't promised anything in this deal other then to hold up their end of the bargain.  They are asking what the online Amiga Community wants as a new product, with exact details, in numbers with the payment to cover the dead costs in a third party escrow account until the product ships.  

and IF it was reasonably priced then not only would I hold my hand up and say sorry but I would probably invest in one. But I don't have loads of money laying spare to throw into a escrow for six months for a product that is not even off the drawing board.

There isn't even a hint of a given product that the online Amiga Community wants out of this deal.  Before you can get as far as you just said, the online Amiga Community has to get 500 people to agree on a given product, with details and turn it over to C=USA.  C=USA does the research and gives a total number of what 500 units is going to cost them.  Then it's the online Amiga Community's turn to gather the 500 payments, to a mutally agreed to third party escrow account and then C=USA goes into action making the item on C=USA's capital until the product ships to those 500 people.

Once CUSA make their mind up on how much these things are gonna cost then maybe people would be willing to put the money in. But saying 500 people need to put an, as so far, undisclosed amount of money into a random escrow on pure faith to start the project, something that is lacking with CUSA especially when you come along basically calling the community in large cowards because we are not willing to do it, is a bit much.

See above for corrections to what you think the offer is about.  That's the kicker, at this stage, it's about getting agreement what the first project should be by 500 people, then the next phase is to find out the total cost is going to be.  There isn't even a hint of what the project should be that would be supported by 500 people getting their dream hardware item.

So again if CUSA are in such a good position to provide these service to the community can they not do like they did with the C64X and produce the machines, say a batch of 500, and then sell them "at cost" to the first 500 people who buy them. Seems to me thats a more reasonable offer.

If the online Amiga Community can't decide what they want of 500 units, at dead costs, how the hell is C=USA going to know for them to take a financial risk on?   You act like C=USA is making this offer to screw you out of money, that isn't the case at all.  If anything, C=USA is taking a huge financial risk because if the project goes forward and if they under estimated the costs because of whatever reason, they are going to be eating the difference on a project that they are not going to see a profit on from the start.  Can you find a better deal then that?

It is the online Amiga Community's ball, do it with what you may.

[dammy]

My complaint isn't that they are now interested in the community, this is actually a refreshing step forward give the past between the various aspects of the community as a whole. But rather why we need to put money into an escrow for a product that, once the community decides what they actually want, will not be seen for six months. A deposit I can understand to secure the unit. But the full money.

They have up to six months to ship the unit out, then after six months,  any and everyone is free to pull their money out of escrow.   Mean while, C=USA is using their own capital to fund the production, if not the actual design, and perhaps licenses for a final cost of zero profit.  There is the danger for C=USA to under estimate the final cost (like it a part has to go under an additional revisions) which means C=USA is going to be losing money.  For that reason alone, it's perfectly reasonable to have the full amount sitting in escrow for when C=USA ships.

What I don't understand is why are people so concerned about it when there hasn't been a product been chosen by 500 people to get a price on.  What if the product dead cost is sub $200USD, are people going to be so damning of keeping sub $200USD in escrow for several months?

[dammy]

What I don't understand is why people are bothering to even think about this deal.
I mean, even if we forget the animosity toward C=USA; even if we forget the huge gaping holes in the logic of the offer (like deciding on a project to go with when they've not even got permission for all interested parties); even forgetting all that there is one simple fact that we cannot ignore:

You are jumping ahead of things.  If the online Amiga Community can decided on a initial project, then C=USA has to do the research in the costs, which would include any needed license fees, that would go into a dead cost quote.  C=USA would then say what the quote is then it's up to the online Amiga Community to get the 500 order payments into a third party escrow account before C=USA will begin.  If C=USA can't get a license, then they announce the project is not possible because of the license issue.  Where is the gap of logic at there?

At low volume the price is guaranteed to be at least several hundred dollars: what are the chances of getting 500 people of such a small community to agree to a project, for it to be legally possible and permitted by all parties, and for them to pay up real cash in advance for a project, even just $100?

Then you add in the fact that it'll probably take 10 polls before people agree on something that's feasible in 6 months, and legally possible and permitted.

Why would a project cost $150K USD as a bare minimum?  It would depend on the project.  Remember, this is being done at dead cost, C=USA won't make a dime of profit off of it so it might be under $200USD @ unit, (total of $100KUSD) again, depending on what the project is.

[dammy]

It isn't going to be $200 USD.  Their C-64X Ultimate is $999 and their C-64 Extreme is $1495.  Their Vic line costs about $500 unless you want something bare bones.  Lets say out of argument that it costs $500 to $700.  That is a lot of money and it is being spent on nostalgia.

Did it say somewhere it has to be a full blown computer?

[dammy]

A product has to be able to sell itself or it isn't worth anything.  Getting people together just adds security to them but won't make the unit sellable in the future unless it can already sell itself.

This is a peace offering to the online Amiga Community and not a new star product for C=USA to base 10K+ unit sales on.  Minimum of 500 is what they are asking for numbers of orders.  After the first batch (at dead cost), they may never sell another unit again if they sold a second batch publicly for profit if they ever decided to make a second run.  I don't see why this is difficult to grasp, what they are offering to do is just for the online Amiga Community at dead cost and not a new line that they are going to make profit on with high sales volume.

[dammy]

If it is missing stuff like memory, storage and so forth, it won't work for the average user.

Let me try my question again, what part of C=USA's challenge says it has to be a mobo?

[dammy]

Show me a project with only 500 units that costs less than $150, and will interest Amiga users sufficiently to cough up....

Wireless Amiga keyboard as an example and I don't mean a cheapo keyboard with boingballs glued to the window keys.