Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community

[dammy]

Specification is simple.

I want a machine that costs no more than a PS3, but has superior abilities to a £1200 i7 PC gaming rig.

I think it's been made clear enough, total cost divided by number of orders (minimum of 500 total) is what the final cost is going to be.  You want exotic never been seen before hardware, expect to pay actual costs for it.  If you want the cost lower per unit, get more then 500 people to put their money where their mouths are.

[dammy]

And on top of that they want 'our' money before even having anything at all? Ha ha ha, what a bunch of nut cases :roflmao:

That's because you are wrong.  Money goes to a third party escrow account until the units have shipped.  C=USA doesn't ship, customers get their money back.

These people need to go away

That's not going to happen.

[dammy]

If they get an order for a million dollars and don't make a profit then that is not a wise business decision.  Five percent of a million dollars is $50,000 dollars.  That means there isn't any money to hire a sales person to further sell a line they are developing.  Their business practices don't add up for them being here for the long haul.

You are confusing the online Amiga Community with their entire market which is beyond the online Amiga Community.  

Even if we are wrong, a good manager always gives the community something.  They could sell cases for the Minimig and Natami.  They can smooth things over for having a rough start with the community.

That is an option, depends on what the online Amiga Community decides on.

Development wise, six months is not enough to develop a product because I look at other larger companies and they don't do business this way.  I say that I don't believe they can keep their promises.

Depends on the hardware that is requested and the six months is when people can honorably with drawl from the third party escrow account.

I think everyone should check them out with the better business bureau.  I think you should ask for a credit report on them.  If the Amiga community loans them credit, you have to be sure they are credit worthy.  My boss doesn't place a $50,000 glass order without the supplier doing a credit check on our company and we have sales in the millions of dollars so it doesn't matter; you have to check them out.

What credit is the Amiga Community loaning them?  All money is kept in a third party escrow account.  C=USA fails to ship, they get nothing and people get their money back.  What is so dangerious with that?

The danger is that no one has met these guys.  I don't know who they are and neither do you.

But I have met face to face with Barry couple of times at his home and at C=USA HQ.  

We should start small like buying inexpensive cases for those willing to take a risk.  I'm not going to pre-order anything because the first run of anything has problems, bugs, issues, etc.  What experience do they have with Amiga hardware?  I think the answer is very little if not nill.  Where can you go to get service?  Do I have to drive several states away to get service?

I don't think you are seeing the big picture.  Cases would only come about if the community choose a particular case and 500 put their money (product is at dead cost) in a third party escrow account until C=USA ships the product.  If it's plastic, you are probably looking around $60K USD for design and a single mold being produced.

I don't make a deal with everyone because I'm desperate.  My mother said, 'when in doubt, do without' and it just looks too good to be true from some company that doesn't have a track record of being here for the long haul, dedicated to the community, etc.

There are a couple of homeless people near my work who have a sign, "will work for free".  What is the difference if there is no transparency with Commodore USA?  Its not like I want to know trade secrets.  You don't know who these people are, friends.

You don't have to participate in this at all.  You can certainly wait and see if the community can agree on a product and get the 500 users to plunk down their cash to a third party escrow account and see if C=USA delivers.  Tens of thousands of people pre-paid for a C64X and got it a few months later.  So yes, C=USA does have a track record of delivering the product.

[dammy]

Besides the fact, that various niches within the greater amiga community have differing needs, making goals such as a pretty custom case or replacement motherboard, appeal to one group but not to another, nobody really believes Commodore USA is capable of producing the combination of hardware and software that can respect the Amiga past heritage and yet transcend it into something that would be considered desirable in today's more general consumer marketplace.  

The fact they feel the need to ask publicly and take pre-orders, shows us they haven't done their home work and data mined past discussions as they should have...

You are not following along then.  C=USA is making a peace offering to the online Amiga Community.  If you all do not take advantage of the offer, less unpaid work for Barry to contend with.  C=USA isn't going to make a dime on this venture as it's dead cost for the pre-orders.  Why should C=USA do "homework" when it's totally up to the online Amiga Community to what they wanted to be produced?

[dammy]

Dammy, your really saying they sold tens of thousands of c64x's just in pre-orders?

Come on dude, If that were even close to true....

Whatever you think.

Even at really ****ty margins, they would have made a good deal of money on that,and have the money to make whatever product they wanted to make without begging for pre-orders and expecting 500 people to pay for a product that dosn't exist.

Begging? :rofl: Barry is offering, if the online Amiga Community can't handle it, too bad for the online Amiga Community.  500 units to spread the development and manufacturing costs is a reasonable number for most possible projects.

30 million dollar advertising budget? Total bull****.

Selling hundreds of thousands of c64x's to big box retail stores? - Total bull****.

I never said that but that some how doesn't stop the C=USA haters from repeating it over and over again.  It was a 20K and a 5K (online retail) sale that did not go through.  Had the terms been more to Barry's liking, a C64X would have been in a store near you (or via online retailer).   Still may see it in 2012, that's Barry's call.

Heavily funding AROS's development? - Total bull****.

After Ben threatened AI over it, I don't see a huge reason at this point in time for C=USA to spend money on a OS they can't use.

Factory in china? - Total bull****.

Then who's furniture facility is it in the pictures with Barry's vanities rolling off the production line?  

This latest stunt - MORE TOTAL BULL****.

Then what do you care?  Other then to continue to spew hate, of course.

[dammy]

It sounds like what would be more useful than having CUSA make anything would just be for a bunch of Amiga users to pool some cash together, come up with some case designs and hire a company that does injection mold stuff to make some cases.

There would be a few technical issues in the final construction with keyboards and power supplies, but, overall, this would get people exactly what they want, I would think.

Maybe I am over simplifying, I don't think so though.

So why hasn't it been done already?

[dammy]

I know what people want...shall I tell you?

I have a good guess what people want, it's a question if 500 will commit to it with money is the question.

[dammy]

There is no reason why we can't put $100 down and pay the rest later.  The fact is that I don't even know what I'm paying.  How do you buy a computer you've never seen and how do you set the price for a computer you've never seen?

What computer is that?

[dammy]

Does HP accept pre-orders?  Apple?  When is this practice normal?  Commodore did this in the early days and it was because they didn't have the money so that tells me something about whom we're dealing with.

Microsoft did this with Kinect.

When would CUSA be accepted to do business with Best Buy?  I can guarantee you that Best Buy wouldn't pre-order.  They would buy on credit and pay in 30 days.

You are acting like profit is the main motive for C=USA to offer this, which isn't true.  You are also acting like there is a significant market left for new products in the online Amiga Community which is simply not true. It's a microscopic market that makes any new product aimed solely at that market doomed to loose money.

[dammy]

If your just going to ignore what these guys have done up to date here then there is really no sense in trying to argue with you either?. I'm not sure what they are trying to accomplish here but so far they haven't really said much......

Many folks here have asked they they either support AROS or the Natami. Neither one is a money maker so I don't see them being interested.

C=USA's offer is get 500 people together with money in a third person escrow account, and come up with a specific product you all are willing to pay for.   Why should they bother go poking around hoping to find something that will make most people happy?  Far easier for 500 people to tell C=USA what one item will make them happy.

[dammy]

The cost is for tooling up for production, the actual cases once the moulds are finished are peanuts compared to the C-USA $400 charge for an empty C64x keyboard

Then why don't you gather a few peanuts up and go make a case with a custom keyboard?  I don't understand you all, you make it sound so easy, then why haven't you done it years ago and make a huge profit from it?  If it's that trivial and all.

I'll even answer for you, it's not trivial and it's damn expensive.  That is the reason, and we all know it.  

What is the reason why so many haters are trying to piss all over this proposal?  I find this most amusing actually, that the haters are so filled with rage they rather see nothing new for the community then to make Barry work for free.  :rofl:

[dammy]

My co-worker sells jewelry so I asked her how she sells it because I wanted to get involved in sales.  She says she does nothing because jewelry sells itself.  Compare that to CUSA's offer that we have to come up with a number or it won't happen.  That infers their creativity alone can't sell it.  We have to come up with what we want because they're not going to be creative too much beyond what we want which means they're done promoting it in the design phase.

Is your co-worker willing to sell her supply at her dead cost?  That is what Barry is offering to do, is she?  Then restrict her to maybe a possible of  sub 500 customers.  Does that sound like a viable business environment to you?  That is exactly what Barry is dealing with.

[dammy]

Dammy, C-USA is not Microsoft.  The idea you'd even remotely compare the two is appalling, regardless of your blind dedication to "the cause".  The Kinect (and your facts are misleading about what you stated about the pre-order factor involving MS directly in a funds down deposit with MS directly) is a completely invalid comparison, and C-USA is not Microsoft.  

Microsoft didn't offer it as dead cost either and I doubt a third party was used for escrow either.  

If you don't want to participate with C=USA, don't and stop posting about it.  That's rather easy now, isn't it?  It would have probably kept this thread down to a few pages instead of the 11+ pages filled with haters foaming at the mouth over a really good offer from C=USA.

[dammy]

Give us a bunch of money and a list of things you like...  Within 6 months we'll go from pipe dream to working manufactured computers.

Again, the money goes to a third party escrow account, not to C=USA.  Nor did C=USA say what the item would be, they left that up to the online Amiga Community.

That sounds like a good deal to you? Your on dope, you really must have drank the cool aid when you visited their "corporate office" which amounts to my garage with a storefront attached.

Steven

Lets see here, they are offering at dead cost to build something the community wants.  That's mighty evil of them huh?  Amazing, you are telling me what I saw when you have never been there.  Who would have thought?

[dammy]

It's quite obvious people don't want to put down an advance order pre-payment from the poll results, and who can blame them?

Less work for Barry, who can complain about that?