AROS68K and the Freescale Coldfire CPU

[WolfToTheMoon]

I was juts looking at some of the V5 Coldfires that can be found in certain printers...

They go as high as 540 MHz!!! Even emulated, any 68K apps would FLY! Man, this would be a killer CPU to test AROS on. I wonder is there any way to get these chips but not having to deal with Freescale directly?

[WolfToTheMoon]

What printers are they found in and are the processors socketed or soldered directly to the boards>

HP LaserJet series is one example...

Here's one... V5 @ 540 MHz - go to specs page.

I was thinking of possibly "raiding" broken HP printers for these V5s :roflmao:

[WolfToTheMoon]

Some more info on V5e...

supports DDR2 RAM(V4e only DDR)
has onboard Wi-Fi on some models(correction - can come with W-Fi interface, needs ZigBee Wi-Fi board).

I'll try to get an example through HP channels(or some other vendors).

[WolfToTheMoon]

Yes, but is it a BGA that is soldered directly to the board? We would have a lot of trouble salvaging those.

I don't know, but I know a person who works with printers and I have asked him to find out if I could buy V5e through him(since he services printers and has contacts at various companies), along with any documentation/developer's tools. I also asked about motherboards... I should have answers in a day or two.

I think a 540 MHz V5e would be great to have.
That's probably more then enough for DVD playback and encoding.

[WolfToTheMoon]

From a technical aspect, its interesting, but if it requires to much work to get 68K code running I'm wondering if there's an advantage over MorphOS' JIT interpreter.

Well, this would be a fun project aimed entirely at classic hardware and aimed for AROS68K only.

But... if it's 540 MHz passive cooling, then greater speeds might be possible with fan cooling. Also, it supports DDR2 RAM(more then 4 GB RAM is possivble with V5e)... this would be a pretty decent computer in any way. Add AGP graphics and it'd be great for upgrading 68K systems(though I suspect it would have to be a towered system for it to fit). Don't know, maybe a standalone board which would fit inside any Amiga + FPGA makes more sense?

V5e is an enhanced V5e core. Unfortunately, there's very, very little info about these even on Freescale's webpage. That's why I asked about documentation. Even so, a V5e is fully superscalar and could be fully pipelined. At 540 MHz, it should run above 060 speeds even in 68K emulation mode.

[WolfToTheMoon]

I appreciate your enthusiasm, and I'd urge you to explore this idea fully.
My only reservation, as I've sort of stated before, is that if emulation is required then solutions we already have may work just as well (or better).

I cannot be more specific on emulation because there's no info on what instructions are added/omitted from V5(e) and what's the difference to 68K or prior CF chips. None that I could find...

Also, there's no C68Klib for V5 and V5e cores... I wonder if it is because they're more compatible with 68K or there's no demand for it since V5 and V5e are only sold to big hardware manufacturers. We'll see..

[WolfToTheMoon]

This project seems like a pipe dream to me (though I'm always open to surprises!), but if you're going to upgrade the Amiga with a processor that needs an emulation layer in the end anyway, why not go for something other that Coldfire? The Atom series have built in Intel graphics, as far as I understand, which seems like a huge advantage. Of course, then it'll be Intel Inside

Regarding monster accelerators in general, I don't understand why it isn't done the other way around. Like, a PCI card with the Amiga specifics on it (implemented in FPGA?) and the host computer would slave as a peripheral interface and 68k emulator.

By now, people might consider directing me to WinUAE or similar emulators, but ultimately, WinUAE isn't as responsive as a real Amiga, which is pretty much the only reason I still have an A1200 on my desk. Relatively small delays in keyboard/mouse input and sound/video output add up and detract from the experience I'm looking for.

Again, this would not be directed at AmigaOS, but AROS68K. I wouldn't even be talking about this for Os 3.x because it's too much of a hassle for not much speed up.
Emulation layer would be needed for those apps/games that call 68K specific instruction that are absent from CF. With the V5e core, even those apps would probably run far faster then on real 68060. On V4e core, they would run somewhere between 030 and 040 speeds.
For apps compiled on CF and newly written apps, they would run completely native on CF and at full speed.

But the key point here is that 68060 costs a LOT of money, while CFs are dirt cheap. And they enable modern peripherals, DDR RAM, ATA, even Wi-Fi.

This is only an idea currently.

[WolfToTheMoon]

I'd love to see this combined with a FPGA emulating the Amiga chipset.

Me too... I'd prefer it to be an acc. card(towered 1200 or 4000) because of price, but if it is not to be for this or that reason, a standalone motherboard with FPGA could be made.

But I'd like to avoid a standalone option, because it would be pricier, competing with NATAMI and while it would probably be somewhat cheaper, we do not need 2 very similar products with a similar price on this very small market.

[WolfToTheMoon]

Actually, it would be a fourth system in a limited market. First the Minimig, then the FPGA Arcade, then the Natami, and finally this system.
So you're right, it would be better to keep the price down (by avoiding a FPGA).

I wouldn't consider Minimig or FPGA arcade as competitors to Natami or my proposed CF machine. Sure, there is some common ground between them, but my idea is more of a next-gen 68K like Natami.

If I cannot get this my idea for under 400-500 euros, I will not do it. Primarily because then, IMHO, it becomes too expensive to be called hobby(even so, I'm sure some people might still want to buy a machine like that) and it would be too close to natami to justify it for me personally.

[WolfToTheMoon]

Personally, I'd hope for an even lower price as 400-500 euros strikes me as a little high.
I could see that if it did incorporate a small FPGA, but if not I'd hope to see it for as little as half that figure.

Atari Coldfire is 599 euros(they have a expensive FPGA oboard), so you are right...
My goal would 300-350... But I have insufficient info to base that on any real life data. Especially the V5e price.

[WolfToTheMoon]

It would be rediculous to make acellerator board which must use emulation. Better to bake softcore in fpga like Natami.

They would run OS and recompiled apps natively(+ those not calling missing instructions)...

Natami will be very expensive and if I could get V5e cores, slower.
A cheap, fast, modern peripherals enabling 68K acc. board would make sense... I think.

Imagine running V5e at 600 MHz, a few gigs of RAM, a AGP or PCI graphics card + (S)ATA controller, USB 2.0 and possibly even Wi-Fi. All that on classics for less then half the money NATAMI would probably cost you.

[WolfToTheMoon]

Given that both elbox and olie have both tried and given up

For AROS68K? I think they have not tried...

sure, this would be a complex project. But at this stage it's just an idea.
Depending on whether I'd find anyone interested in helping and on some other factors as the availability of the V5e core and the price, I might just try and do it ...

If not, I'll revert to a 6502-based project.

I consider this primarily an educational project for myself.

[WolfToTheMoon]

The best thing we found out is that seems that Freescale haven't given up on Coldfire family.

This V5e core is a complete mystery. Hardly any info about it but it is plain that it is not a simple derivation of the V5 core(since V5 goes up to 333 MHz, but V5e has a 540 MHz version, leading me to speculate it may be a significant upgrade to the base V5 core or maybe even a different manufacturing process/technology). It may lead to a V6 core Coldfire sometimes in the future. According to their plans that were presented 8-9 years ago, a V6 core should have been out by now, but obviously things have not be progressing in a manner they anticipated. Still, if V6 core gets launched, that would mean a potential 800 MHz 68K compatible, with possible USB 3.0 support, SATA, PCIe...

[WolfToTheMoon]

What is the price of those CPUs? Unless they are dirt cheap, I don't see the point.
If you want to resurrect an old project how about the G3 PPC card instead?

ColdFire CPUs are dirt cheap... in fact, you could probably sell an entire acc board with a V4e Coldfire, DDR RAM and PCI GPU for the price of one 68060 CPU.

[WolfToTheMoon]

If you want to resurrect an old project how about the G3 PPC card instead?

For AOS4/MOS?

Yes, there are dirt cheap PPC accelerators out there for old Macs but it will never happen for Classic Amigas because Hyperion will probably never sanction such a project. It would be too big ofa a threat to the Acube and A-eon partnership.

As to MOS, that should be discussed with the MOS team but I doubt they would sanction it either.

So, pretty much the only choice now for classics is either 68K(OS 3.x) or Coldfire(AROS68K) acc boards.

[WolfToTheMoon]

I have some info on the V5e...

The guy I contacted informed me that the entire motherboard from the HP laserJet that contains the V5e @ 540 MHz can be bought for about 500ish $ thru his service. I'm still trying to find info on whether I could get any V5e documentation.