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Author Topic: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek  (Read 9068 times)

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Offline Karlos

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He's right, to be honest. And that's coming from someone that does use Linux, both for work and at home.

I don't know anybody using Linux as a desktop OS that isn't measurably more computer savvy than the majority of users. That's not to say it's an elitist thing but most people just want their desktop computer to work without any fannying about and more often than not they want it for a spot of entertainment too.

Linux doesn't really excell in these areas. When it comes to desktops, there's too much choice for the average computer use to cope with and you can only run games that were either ported to the platform or are sufficiently compatible with the implemented featureset of Wine in order to work directly.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, Firefox died
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2009, 01:04:47 AM »
Quote from: mr_a500;509684
Argh! That linked page consistently freezes the version of Firefox I'm running on BeOS. I don't know what it's doing, but it kills it every time.

Ironically, I'm using BeOS because I think Linux desktop sucks. I tried about 7 different distros of Linux, but hated them all. Linux GUIs (Gnome, KDE) are so damn slow and jerky, they make even the bloatware Windows seem zippy. (and that's only part of the reason Linux desktop sucks)


KDE 3.x was OK, but 4 is an abortion. Never had any issues with Gnome's performance though. Fast as fury on this machine and no slouch on the box at work, which is a single core P4 with Radeon X300.

If you want a window manager that's both extremely fast out of the box but at the same time highly customisable, then fvwm is for you. The initial desktop it gives you is very spartan and configuring it takes time, but it is the veritable Intuition of the linux world. It is fast even on 10 year old machines.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2009, 02:12:04 AM »
Quote from: kolla;509691
It really doesnt matter what some jackass means about linux as desktop computer, neither does it matter what most users are doing. Personally I cant grasp how anyone can survive with Windows, for me Windows is dead on the desktop, and everywhere else for that matter - other people's oppinions on this dont apply. Appearantly I'm just not "most users", nothing wrong with that.


As I said, you are in the tech savvy minority. His argument is correct in that most ordinary users are put off at the thought of actually having to do some work to have their machine the way they'd ideally like it.

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What I seriously dislike though, is when "most users" is used as a excuse to criple and destroy the tools I use - this is very much what those futile attempts at linux desktops have been about lately, and it sucks.


You mean KDE4.x, right? :D
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2009, 01:53:11 PM »
Quote from: mr_a500;509694
Thanks. I'll check out fvwm - but don't Linux applications need to be specifically compiled to use a certain GUI? I already ran into the nightmare of dependency hell and KDE-only applications. (Speaking of dependency hell - installing a simple frigging text editor installed over 1GB of libraries!! The text editor sucked too.)

Which editor was that? :lol:

As for the GUI, it's not quite like that. The GUI under linux consists of up to 4 distinct components

  • The X Server itself
  • Compositor*
  • The Window Manager
  • Widget sets

The X Server provides the absolute bottom layer of the GUI and provides the basic access to graphics hardware as well as the input event handling stuff. It is pretty much the same everywhere and frankly the differences that do exist tend to be way behind the interface where you aren't likely to find any problems. If you do have any, they are more likely down to driver issues and so on.

The Compositor is an optional feature that replaces X's traditional rendering engine. Usually this is some fancy OpenGL thing that gives real-time transparency and other visual effects. Nice to have but not essential. Despite having ample hardware to run it here, I prefer not to as it increases the power consumption of my machine significantly to have the gfx card running in full performance 3D mode all day long.

The Window Manager is what most people mean when they talk of linux desktops. It provides the basic windowing services and sets the overall look and feel of windows. It also provides the "desktop" functionality, such as menu systems, desktop icons and so on.

Widget sets are the final bit. They provide the gui controls you find within an application window. Like the Amiga, where you have Gadtools, MUI/Zune, ClassAct/Reaction, Triton to name a few, you several of these under Linux. There's GTK and Qt just for starters.

Now, the thing here is, you can have multiple Window Managers and Widget sets installed all at once. If you only want to use one WM, eg fvwm, you can still run any applications written for gnone, KDE, xfce etc. The only proviso is that you have at least the base libraries for the others installed in order to do that. You don't need to install the entire WM packages if you don't intend to use their actual desktop services.


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As I said, GUI is only one reason I think desktop Linux sucks.

My thoughts are that it's down to too much choice. You end up having to install base libraries from KDE and gnome at the bare minimum to run most software.

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I've had Linux crash on me many times (8 times just in one day!), I've had kernel panics and 6 times the install list got corrupted and I had to reinstall the entire damn OS. I could go on and on. And I thought Windows was bad...

That's very bad. Kernel panics usually very rare and can be indicative of faulty hardware. That said, if you use a dodgy kernel mode driver, it is also possible. In the last 3 years continuous use, my work machine has never kernel panicked. I had X lock up once or twice in that time, but I've always been able to restart the X server.

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(...preparing myself to get flamed by the Linux lovers...;))

All suitably complex machines are capable of crashing, no matter what OS you shove on it.


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I'm running BeOS on a 866 Mhz PIII with 1 Gb RAM (PC I got free - I still refuse to buy a PC). BeOS can only handle 768 Mb RAM though, so it boots with a RAM limiter.

Have you thought of trying Zeta or Haiku?
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 02:00:05 PM »
Quote from: Colani1200;509737

Well... installing a KDE app for a desktop other than KDE doesn't really make sense. Possible, but not optimal.


I prefer KDevelop as an editor environment but gnome as a window manager. Ergo, I have the base libraries for KDE installed, but not the actual desktop. KDE 4 just put me off completely.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 04:49:46 PM »
@Mr_A500

Actually, Emacs and Vim have more capability than any sane person could want. And you don't need no stinkin' X server neither, let alone KDE ;)
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, Information Died
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2009, 03:10:35 PM »
Quote from: cecilia;509942
Ubuntu has never crashed on me. I have yet to use/install nVidia drivers because it seems a bit daunting and if something works I am loath to change it.


I use the drivers directly from nVidia as they provide all the various libraries I need to write software for the GPU.

Installing them is actually fairly easy, but as it's not from the repository you need to rebuild them every time you have a kernel update.

Installing just amounts to running the downloaded file in a root shell. You need to not have the X server running too:

1) Boot into "safe" mode, then select "root shell"
2) change to runlevel 3 (type: telinit 3)
3) log in as yourself
4) sudo as root
5) run the installer package (sh .run)
6) agree that nVidia isn't liable for the unexpected end of the universe
7) let it try to download a kernel module, if that fails let it build it
8) let it install the legacy 32-bit opengl stuff if you have a 64-bit driver
9) let it backup and replace your xorg.conf
10) restart

if all has gone well, you now have drivers that support your hardware properly. One downside is, you also have a tainted kernel, if you care about such things.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, Firefox died
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2009, 03:22:35 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;509954
Use LXDE but replace the WM with IceWM and use the OS4 theme.

It makes my missus' poxy Aspire One seem responsive. :)


I can't really be ersed with "pimping" linux GUI, to be honest. gnome works fine for me ;)
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, Information Died
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 03:23:48 PM »
Quote from: nicholas;509958
What's wrong with adding the RPMFusion repo and 'yum install kmod-nvidia'?

Is it missing the CUDA stuff?


Didn't support my card at the outset, so I never bothered keeping up with it. nVidia make releases pretty regularly too. Installing them is far less of a PITA than the list makes it look, tbh.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, Information Died
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2009, 07:34:24 AM »
Quote from: cecilia;510056
yeah, that sounds very similar to what I have seen on the ubuntu forums. my nVidia GeForce4 440 Go doesn't seem to have a specific driver on the nVidia site, but it's years old so i am not surprised.

I'm just not comfortable with doing all that - at least not right now.

thanks, tho


Actually, if you are looking at a GeForce 4 generation card, the open source nv drivers probably have it covered. It's only once you get to the G80 generation and above you really need to use nVidia's drivers to get the most out of your hardware
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Offline Karlos

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Re: The Day, Or Year, The Linux Desktop Died - InformationWeek
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2009, 07:37:11 AM »
Other linux fans will probably burn me for this but as I said, there's still plenty wrong with linux as a desktop OS from a novice user point of view. It is getting better but it has some way to go.

However, I'll take it over windows for my day to day needs any day.
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