Running out of music

[Karlos]

I don't concur. It is akin to suggesting that we can run out of (english language) poetry since there are only 26 letters in the alphabet to construct it out of.

I chose poetry over normal writing since it (usually) requires some structure beyond basic language rules. Otherwise, you'd have to allow any arbitrary sequence of notes to be classed as music which I'm assuming you don't.

You also need to consider that the very definition of what is music varies massively even within the defined constraints of melody, harmony and rhythm. The 12 semitone scale is just one of several. A lot of middle eastern and asian music have quartertone scales which allow for much greater diversity than the one to which we are accustom.

The reason a lot of modern music sound so alike is that it is generally quite formulaic and tailored to suit popular tastes. Trends change. Consider even the basic timing signatures used in music. Most mainstream music uses 4/4 and wouldn't dream of deviating. Yet, if you look at other genres, you find many much more interesting things around.

And people wonder why I like a bit of Richard D James...

[Karlos]

Yes of course, but that's intentional. I'm talking about the mathematical fact that there is a finite number of combinations of notes.

I disagree, especially when considered from the purely mathematical point of view, since there is no upper limit on how many notes may be used in a sequence, there is no limit to the possible number of permutations of those notes.

Mathematically, one can say that my adding or removing just one note from any piece of music produces another. Whether or not it sounds like the original is irrelevant.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm writing in 5/4 at the moment, and have some stuff written in 7/8

Good. Try alternating signatures too, that's always fun :-)

[Karlos]

I don't think adding a note to the end of a previously composed melody is sufficient to consider it a new composition. What I perhaps should have said is that there is a finite number of permutations of notes which can be played before repetition starts occurring.

Again I disagree. If you can have completely irrational numbers with just the digits 0-9 (ie fractional numbers without any cyclic repetition), then with even just one octave of 12 semitones you can achieve the same thing yet you typically have 7 octaves of useful range for some instruments. Also, since the note lengths and spaces between them are musically significant you get even more permutation possible. Since there are no limits to the number of notes you are allowed in your sequence, no limits on the length and spacing between them, the number of permutations is infinite already.

If that doesn't convince you, consider that so far this is all with just single note melodies. Add to that the idea of layering these sequences to produce chords and harmonies. Then multiply this by all the possible arrangements for a vast number of real and synthetic instrument sources.

[Karlos]

Well I did write one track in 10/4, but the rhythm made it sound more like alternative 4/4 and 6/4. Does that count?

Sure. I'm of the opinion that it's easier to characterise the signature timing in these terms if the music tends to alternate rather than picking an excessively long bar length to make it "evenly" spaced purely for notational purposes ;-)

[Karlos]

motorollin wrote:
Variation in velocity and length of notes will only do so much. They won't transform one melody in to another one.

--
moto

Mathematically they do, which is what your original assertion was based on. Going back to your FT question, they will have 2 different spectra, ergo they are not congruent.

Wether two melodies sound alike is an entirely different question.

[Karlos]

motorollin wrote:

Of course I realise that there is more to music than just sequences of notes, but I still maintain that two pieces of music which contain the same sequence of notes in the same order are bound to sound similar.

Try listening to some of Hybrid's "Additional Remix and Production By" to see how different a melody can sound even when unmodified, just by changing the harmony that goes with it. If you listen to their remix of Filter's "Take A Picture", where the vocals (transposed up about a semitone) are used against a somewhat melancholic backdrop it sounds nothing like the original uptempo song...