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Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Interview questions discussion thread
« on: August 05, 2003, 10:57:24 AM »
I thought I'd answer a few of the questions, as they've already been answered officially before, or they were in the featurelist, etc.

@  meerschaum

The purpose of the "dongle" (AFAIK some code in the BIOS of the A1 that OS4 detects and allows itself to be installed/run) is for a number of reasons, take your pick:

 * The smaller the number of configurations that OS4 can be installed on, the less development and testing work that needs to be done.  OS4 isn't likely to set the world alight, so it makes perfect business sense to get as large a return on as small amount as possible.  This isn't meant to have a go at Hyperion, I'm not saying they're cutting corners in QA or anything like that.

 * Presumably Eyetech and Hyperion have or will have some kind of partnership, and as there's more money in selling hardware than software, both companies can have their fingers in both pies.

Future Amiga "next gen" hardware won't necessarily be "derived" from the current A1 as you put it, it's just a case of limiting the number of configurations it will run on.  If Eyetech/Hyperion decide to go with a completely different chipset and say the G5 in future, then Hyperion will develop the OS to cater for that as well.

Regarding "stability" of all the current possible configurations, I'm sure they won't get them all perfect first time.  As you don't like the A1/OS4, I'm sure you'll expect them to be perfect first time or expect a grilling by you on the amiga.org forums.

@ shIva

Your first four questions - the answer is no as it's not a unix box, nor is it intended to be aimed at that market.  Your networking question is answered yes from the OS4 featurelist.  The rest of your unix related questions, no.

"Will be system be documented?"... not sure what you mean by this.

@ bloodline

re: DHCP, of course it will, it would be a bit of a cack TCP/IP stack if it didn't :-)  See the OS4 featurelist.

 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2003, 11:47:42 AM »
@ meerschaum

Any type of RAM - that's a chipset issue, and not under the control of Eyetech/HP.  AFAIK, there aren't any other PPC mobo chipsets available for them to use, Apple use one of their own design.

Any case/PSU - AFAIK there isn't any problem...

Any graphics card - AFAIK there are no hardware compatibility issues between mobo and gfx card, but the more likely point is that drivers have to be written for OS4.  So at the moment the number of gfx cards usable under OS4 is lower, and will increase with time, provided that OS4 is successful enough.

re the "dongle" - you apparently didn't even bother to read what I wrote.  OBVIOUSLY the less different hardware a software product has to support, the more likely it is to be stable under all the supported setups!  Hyperion neither have the time or the money to make sure that OS4 works on all past, present and future PPC-based motherboards!

What do you mean by "equally rigorous measures", it doesn't even relate/compare to the dongle related subject.  You're kind of saying "I hope their software testing procedures are good, because they're insisting on a dongle".  Apples/oranges.  If it turned out that the dongle was affecting software stability or got in the way of the legitimate user on supported hardware, then I might have a problem with it.

I say judge A1/OS4 when it is released.  If it turns out to be a pile of cack even on "fully supported" hardware, then by all means criticise it, but all you're doing right now is just assuming it will be cack and that nothing could possibly save it from your criticism, except possibly if they gave you free copies that could run perfectly on any hardware you choose.  Hey! Why doesn't it run on my PC!

meerschaum, you are so biased it is unbelievable.  I don't know why you even bother to cast judgement on something you care so little about, and have no intention of even checking it out.
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2003, 12:00:35 PM »
Quote
here is my question... very simple...


Very good, then why didn't you ASK that, instead of turning it into a rant?

(and that question you've just asked in that way IS a valid question)
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2003, 12:37:03 PM »
The strange thing is, what has the hardware that a product runs on got to do with its release-worthy status.  (Rhetorical)

I think current high-end "Classic" Amiga owners would feel cheated if they got left behind now.  It would probably be a good deal easier for Hyperion if they did get left behind, but I think there should be at least some transition from old to new rather than just leaving "faithful" users high and dry.  They should be left behind at some point, maybe OS5 in say a few years' time (IMO, not based on any information I've heard :-)).
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2003, 01:40:16 PM »
@ ksk

Screensavers as benchmark programs?  NOOOOOO!

Screensavers are supposed to stop toasting the screen, preferably not at the expense of toasting other components in the system... I want my system to relax and cool down for a bit when I'm not using it...

PPC machines may run cooler but it seems they are less temperature tolerant than their x86 counterparts... stories of users in hot countries having to use as much active cooling on their PPC boxes there as I do with my x86 box here in the UK...

By all means have pretty screensavers :-)  Just not screensavers that make CPUs go toasty hot :-)

 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2003, 03:33:06 PM »
@ bloodline
Quote

That's right I asked a really stupid question. Frankly I trust the official AOS4 feature list like I trust Charlie Mansons defence speech...

And why is that?
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Do you know how many times the Official features of AOS4.0 have changed?

They have?  Since the featurelist?  Or are we talking about silly things Amiga Inc have said?

 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2003, 07:17:14 PM »
@ asian1

I don't think there's anything Amiga Inc definitely own that's worth buying, certainly not for their problems right now :-)

As I understand it, Hyperion were given the rights to continue to develop AmigaOS as they saw fit.  I'd guess that same goes for Eyetech and the AmigaOne.
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2003, 07:19:41 PM »
Quote
Hmm... I'm sorry to hear that bloodline. Is there something I can do to make my sig more neutral.


How about a Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back quote, the one where their replying to their critics on a website?  Actually no, that would conflict with the posting guidelines quite badly :-)
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2003, 07:39:25 PM »
Unless you use how the quote was referenced by the reporter later in the film :-)
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2003, 03:26:48 PM »
Quote
Quote
The purpose of the "dongle" (AFAIK some code in the BIOS of the A1 that OS4 detects and allows itself to be installed/run) is for a number of reasons, take your pick:
* The smaller the number of configurations that OS4 can be installed on, the less development and testing work that needs to be done.

Which of course is not a relevant reason, and IMO a ridiculous excuse.

Ok, let me put this to you simply.  Given a very small budget and that a particularly large return is unlikely, would you like to design a piece of software that works on one platform, or every desktop computer platform, mobile phone, and toaster?  Which seems like the less work to you?  Think of the amount of extra testing that has to go in, the amount of extra code to handle compatibility for each platform, even more extra bits of code to handle strange quirks of each platform.  And we're not talking in this case about just any old bit of software, but AN OPERATING SYSTEM.  The thing that has to handle loads of different types of hardware already despite the "supported hardware" standards imposed by Hyperion/Eyetech.  Operating system design is a monumental task, even for one platform and a very specific hardware set!  If you think it is so easy, where is the AmigaOS port you've been doing in your spare time that runs on all hardware platforms perfectly?
If you don't have some restrictions, customers will complain that your software doesn't work on their hardware setup, and since you didn't specifically knock on their hollow skull and tell them that it wouldn't work, it is totally your fault.  Not all operating systems makers have Microsoft's R&D budget.
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It's apparently been decided that there should only be an as small as possible amount to get a return from

Or maybe they're aiming at a market that is realistic for them to aim at, at least to start off with.
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I don't think that anyone, not anyone who's said anything "officially" at least, would claim that there's more money to be made from hardware than from software.


No, no-one "officially" will admit that.  Why do you think Sun Microsystems and Apple are primarily hardware makers?  Their OS comes secondary.  Microsoft are the only ones who have made it work any other way, and they played the game exceptionally well, as well as throwing in a large number of low tactics that should be illegal.

Microsoft don't like to admit that their main income is from MS Office, but it is.

Now please think about this.  An operating system can typically cost say ~$100, anywhere up to that and a little bit beyond.  There are few exceptions to this.  Now, how many man hours go into making that $100 product?  How many buyers is AmigaOS4 likely to net?  Now think about the hardware.  The variation in costs is so much bigger, all kinds of things can be done to the setup to make it cheaper or more expensive, and generally to make a much fatter return on the product.

Quote
That "Eyetech/Hyperion" pair is a problem. Whether there's a licensee for the hardware in question should be irrelevant for development decisions IMO. If there is a willing licensee, then great, but that should not be the stumbling block. I think the question should simply be "is a port technically and commercially feasible?" That should cover it, just as it always has for most software publishers.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2003, 10:38:28 AM »
@ shIva
Quote
to my first questions : it´s clear, that os4 is not intentioned to be a unix box, but things like ssh2, etc. are not really "only unix" anymore.


They might be as standard on MacOS X, which has a FreeBSD kernel IIRC, which makes me think it's at least part-unix box :-)  But otherwise, up to the present they're a unix-only thing.

Quote
for further versions a multiuser file system (afaik mufs is availible) is very important.


So do I, which is why I submitted the question I did :-)  Though some people vehemently disagree that AmigaOS should go in that direction.

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documentation : i´d really like to see a documentation to the system like sun does it.


So just "Is there going to be any online documentation for OS4?" or is there something particular you like about how the Sun docs site does it?

There's developer reference and user reference.  You'd like to see both online presumably?  I don't see anything wrong with that, just clarifying your opinion :-)
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2003, 10:59:30 AM »
@ Seehund

Ok, going straight to the point (what I believe is your point anyway), say for example if there was a HCL (which I think there should be) and it said "this won't work on the Pegasos or any Apple motherboards", don't you think the response would be "don't you go oppressing me!" from the particular sect of "I love MorphOS and hate AmigaOS"?

Say if Hyperion/Eyetech never mentioned the dongle and just did what I said in my example in the HCL, would that make anything better?

And as for quality arguments, Apple and Sun are two companies known for restricting their OS to their hardware (except for Solaris x86, but that's not really a product Sun is trying to push).  Both companies have good to excellent reputations for OS-hardware stability and reliability.  Windows does not.  AmigaOS has always been on proprietary hardware and has an excellent reputation for stability/reliability there.  UNIX variants have pretty good hardware support, and IMO are generally more stable than Windows because of their simpler design and avoidance of "house of cards" style putting one technology on top of another the way Windows does.

I didn't see anyone complaining when Workbench 1.0 or anything released since until OS4, that it only ran on proprietary hardware.

You may think I've avoided your questions to a certain extent, I did, basically because it comes down to you thinking it's a stupid idea to do what Eyetech/Hyperion is doing in restricting the hardware platform and I don't.

Personally I think if AmigaOS4 and subsequent releases were successful enough, then it would be wise to open the OS to other PPC platforms provided the software didn't need significant reworking.  I don't see that it is essential to its success though, I think the direct opposite, such ambitious aims could be the death of the project at this stage.

From what little I know of MorphOS, it is effectively limited to a very small range of hardware, just that you're finding out in a different way and you feel you're not being "oppressed".
 

Offline mikeymikeTopic starter

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Re: Interview questions discussion thread
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2003, 11:06:04 AM »
I really hope this doesn't become quoted scripture for those arguing against the decision to limit the platform OS4 runs on.  The "answers" are someone's points of view on the situation at best, certainly not undeniable arguments.