How is OS4 ?

[DAX]

Edit.

[DAX]

OS4.1 final is an early alpha?

last time we talked all you had was OS4 alpha experience since when you became a 4.1 final user?

I think it failed since there's still more people interested in spending thousands on classic hardware than buying Sams.

And you think wrong, as all Sam533, Sam667 and Sam800 are sold out with a few remaining 733. Much more than towered 4000 system on ebay (very sporadic and selling around 2 pieces per year).

So what? Sam460 specs would have been ok-ish 5 years ago but now it's just obsolete before being released. I don't see many reasons to be happy about a machine with amiga-market specs from 5 years ago... last 10 years all amiga market has lagged behind x86 market but now it's getting ridiculous since hardware manofacturers seem unable to produce anything that is capable of performing significantly better than 5 year old (cheaper) hardware.

You seem to forget that having a system with no expandable GFX card is way more limiting than the lack of VMX, I would take a powerful PCI-E card over that any day (much more potential, as in INFINITE more potential).

ATM they have failed to deliver the machine for the summer as they promised and you blindly believed.

I didn't blindly believed anything (ho and summer anyway, finishes September 20th, some 3 months from now).

ATM there's just vapourware (we'll see when x1000 is released... perhaps we'll have to wait until 2011). ACube hardware still doesn't make commercial sense anyway. Otherwise ACube would produce 1000 boards and we wouldn't see spamming-news each time they produce 20 boards.

Tell me where you did get the 20 number, I'm curious...

I don't think I ever claimed that anything amiga-ish has any chance to take the world. Reading your claims about your vapourware x1000 taking over the world is funny. Reading your comparisons of vapourware hardware with real tangible solutions is hilarious.

Glad to amuse you (as I hope you are glad you amuse me)

The bad choices of hardware partners are ruining OS4 chances to be moderately successful in the hobby-OS market. The bad management choices like not releasing OS4.x for existing ppc hardware kill the chances of increasing user base (with the honorable exception of Peg2, although Moana would have made more sense)

Keep your love for dead ends for yourself

The "other OSes" amiga-like have an obvious advantage: if you feel nostalgic or are a little curious about amiga things you can try them out easily (without making big investments) and become an user. And that's the biggest problem for OS4, and the detail some OS4 users try to justify with strange arguments. It's not just about technical disadvantages, my point is that it's too expensive. If they had released Moana at least that problem wouldn't exist for people willing to use 2nd hand hardware. And please note that Moana wouldn't prevent the release of sams, x1000 or whatever vapourware thingie is announced because some people want new hardware.

We'll see about that, 2 of my friends I'm trying to convince to come back tryed Icaros desktop and found it of very little use, while they are interested in AmigaOS, you see "free" not interested at all (maybe not everyone runs his life on 3rd world country budgets as to be that concerned about money).

The only potential of AmigaOS is disappearing and giving it's name to a modern OS. If Hyperion ever wanted to sell a modern OS they would need to get rid of almost all amigaos API to make it evolve and put a "compatibility box" like OSX guys did. You may claim OSX is MacOS but well... it's just a label and it has little in common

The long term clear public goal of OS4.x should be jumping to x86. PPC is dead on desktop.

You should talk with Vidarh about this, he is not convinced it is the only solution, not one bit.

Sure, trying to take over the world with AmigaOS API would be ridiculous and won't work. Claiming it's progressing a lot doesn't make much sense since the API limits all the future evolvement of the OS.

Amiga back comers don't care about that, i run Blender a modern software that needs a modern API and it is ROCK SOLID. Never crashes even after an 8 hour render I can pick it up and continue. Guess that many other modern app will work the same without any mystical api change (just what's needed is the motto

Then it's strange you don't notice that spending 1000Euros to be able to try out a limited toy OS and claiming that it's evolving a lot, that it's "the real one", that it's based on some unimportant old sources of an 80s OS no one knows and getting nervous when another hobby OS beats it in all benchmarks is no less laughable.

I do not reply to your comparisons because of that, but because it wouldn't be the first time I see you hijacking a thread.
Both OSs have along way to go, when one will claim it can do anything the "others" can, we'll talk about it. I believe AOS will get there first now that it is free to run and commercial partnerships can be formed, we'll see about this down the line...

Yeah, I just have noticed how they promised to release a board this summer and they failed. I have also noticed that they released 2 updates for OS4.1 but they are still unable to get USB2.0 working. I have noticed an evaluation motherboard running a FPS at 4fps (wohooo!). I have noticed some cosmetic changes like startup managers and some eyecandy but little deep changes in the core of the OS. In the meanwhile I had to read claims made by people like you praising a vapourware motherboard with unknown specs and praising "new hardware" that is five years late. BTW, the idea of anouncing x1000 using a web-mistery is highly unprofessional and sad. The owners of amigaos think that they have the golden goose, don't realise that the world has evolved last years and try to milk the users.

Crumb, can you just stop being antagonistic? You know the graphics subsystem isn't there, they were using a 33Mhz PCI bus (radeon 9200) on debug.
You know it and keep attacking the X1000, give these guys a break.

The only way for MOS and AOS to get along is to progress on their own and for users to stop being antagonistic. i do that unless an AOS4 thread gets hi-jacked, all AOS4 users do, why don't you return the favor?

[DAX]

Wrong, but perhaps you meant to say "not much people who are interested in OS4, care about MorphOS"? Then it would probably be a correct assumption.

But every single MorphOS user is an Amigan, and MorphOS is way more Amiga compatible than OS4 so it definitely gives you a superior Amiga experience, which is partly why we made the choice we did...



Wrong again, the red trolls are all over, but they simply lack competitive arguments, they have nothing to put on the table in a comparison or discussion about various alternatives. But that doesn't mean they sit quiet, their way to go is to say "but it isn't TEH REEEL!!11!" as soon as they can. This basically boils down to some blind brand following.

And about your claim that no red trolls spam MorphZone.org; "Ssolie" had some spasmodic outbreak there some time ago, his fixation at the time seemed to be the fact that the MorphOS team even asked for money for the key file, but he was soon put right.

I have many times asked myself (and I asked user "DAX" in another thread here), why would anyone even consider something 1/2 as good at 10x the cost? The answer: A boing ball!

The problem at amiga.org is that there are some MOS "professionals" spamming every AOS4 thread and deliberately changing the topic, while AmigaOS expert don't visit here since forever (just a very few, maybe because it is becoming similar to moo bunny every day that passes).

Oh and the reason why people prefer AmigaOS over MOS is the same I told Crumb, they all have a modern system, so they are not as desperate as you think for a feature or two, don't be surprised if they don't care for an unofficial project that runs on Apple scraps.

What they care is for Amiga to have dignified future made of front page news items (see if you can get that with your emac port) and dedicated machines.
The features will come and i bet that now that AOS is free to run and form commercial partnerships, will reach a "decent point" far earlier than any other Amiga-like option.it's inevitable.

[DAX]

Just for the record, the x1000 is also based on Apple scrap CPU. How do you feel about that? I wouldn't care, but you certainly should.

You are wrong on this one, the CPU was developed before the buy out and Apple even had to concede on any sale of this CPU to third parties. Moreover it is produced elsewhere.
So you have
1) Designed when there was no Apple
2) Made elsewhere certainly not by Apple
3) Sold without Apple having decided anything.

So much so for an Apple CPU...

[DAX]

Leander, I'm tired, I can reply 12 times to anything you wrote (usual BS) but i'm out to dinner, just let Crumb reply for himself next time, I know he can...

[DAX]

I disagree. It's all well and good having "INFINITE" potential (which actually isn't), but what value is it if you've neither the software nor the drivers to make use of it?

And the solution is to resign ourselves to the idea that we will never ever get good 3D drivers right?
Anyway Rogue said their gonna work on expanding OS4 after the X1000 port and he said he knows Graphics are top priority.
We'll see about that...

If you seriously think that you will get a final, shipping X1000 in 3 months from now you should think about stopping whatever it is you're huffing.

:lol:
I don't actually (but who knows?  Seriously though, I will be glad to buy it for Christmas.

Because the X1000, with it's PA6T cpu totally isn't a dead end.

The whole WILL to design new HW it's not a dead end, PAsemi CPU might come and go, but if there is the "will" they will find new solutions.
When there is no will (or possibility as in MOS case) there can't be solutions.

There are some people who truly believe that anything more advanced than 8bit was a bad idea. Doesn't make it true however.

Vidarh is a top programmer.

Which is fine up until you get an application that haemorages memory... Like Firefox or WebKit. Firing up either of these on a system with little effective memory protection is just asking for trouble.

When I will get the final version I will let you know how it fares

The 9200 came in 250 and 300Mhz flavours. If yours is running at 33Mhz you have serious issues over and above the fact that you were running your OS with full debugging enabled on it's public debut.

typo there, what I meant is it was running on a 33Mhz standard PCI bus with a ton of debug code running, the final version will have a PCI-E 16X R700 card and no debug code.

Aparently pointing out the truth is considered antagonistic these days.

you wish
Antagonistic is when a very smart individual as Crumb (I know he is) start pointing out troubles he knows exactly the reason why. Antagonistic is when a guy asks ONLY for OS4 information AFTER he already asked about MOS in another thread (and where the MOS crowd happily participated) and someone hijacks said OS4 thread even after being told by the starter he isn't interested, and after being politely asked by a moderator to quit it (I don't mean Crumb here).

You know, it was the impending clusterf^ck that was the launch of the A1  that caused me to decommission my Amigas and move onto BeOS and then  later Linux. I watched with fascination from the outside as zealots  like yourself made many of the justifications for the high price of the  A1 nearly 6 years ago. Those justifications weren't true then and they  aren't now.  The software that they claimed would magically appear never  really did and thanks to the gross mismanagement of Hyperion and the  staggering incompetence of Amiga.inc, the vast majority of development  talent that existed 10 years ago will never again write a single line of  code for the Amiga.

So we're now looking at an even greater foulup with the X1000, 3 times  the cost of the A1 its replacing and with only a scant handful of  applications ever written for its primary OS (seriously, Zeta had more  apps written for and ported to it in it's short life than OS4 has had  ever.) and an OS itself that seems to have serious issues with things  like USB2.0, years after these issues were supposedly fixed.        

The X1000 it's not the original AmigaOne, those making it know the market they're getting into, they know is broken into "factions", they know it's small.
OS4 development was spotty at best during the last several years, everything was frozen and the developers found themselves in a situation where if they worked hard, they could've lost it (for nothing) so they probably worked at Amiga unrelated stuff for a large part of that time period, giving Amiga some spare time.
Now they own what they are working on, and they are heavy at work on the X1000 port and the Friedens are also doing Timberwolf. It's a whole different commitment and I believe it will bring its fruits. Time will tell.

[DAX]

I have explained it in various posts but it seems you missed it.

indeed, refresh my memory

Selling all units isn't difficult when you only produce a handful of boards.

Considering that the last U-boot for sam I got, was downloaded by 600+people and that I know of many that did not (I didn't too for the last up) it would seem that your 20 estimate is a little far fetched, try somewhere near 1000 next time you'll be far closer.
Ah and by the way, even at 20 it would still be far more than classic Amiga system off ebay, which would mean they succeeded just the same.

Peg2 has a nice AGP slot (it's the model that was released 5 years before Sam). Mac Mini has AGPx4. FYI PCI-express with 4 lanes has more or less same bandwitch as AGPx4. I'm using a 64MB Radeon on my Mac Mini G4 and never ran out of gfx ram.

I was talking about emac and mac mini that doesn't support any full lengh modern card.
Lack of Vram is the least of the problem those machine have and will have in the future. and the reason MOS isn't going anywhere.

In case you have missed it, it has been confirmed that x1000 will be for sale around/earlier than christmas

And?

There was an announcement about requiring a low number of people like that (could be 30 perhaps) to produce certain Sam model, otherwise ACube wouldn't do it. Check out old news.

This will win as the most detailed and backed up post of the century :lol:

PPC is a dead end and AmigaOS API is a dead end

PPC has so much life in it you cannot even begin to understand. Not only IBM is developing ne CPus for next generation consoles as we speak (both MS and Nintendo) but they are also developing new ones such as Power7.
And there are more in the pipe-line at AMCC as well, next up is a quad core Titan with 2MB cache.
just to name a few...

I don't try to "convince" friends, I just show them the options, tell them the problems they'll find, the cool positive things about the system and let them choose. If you go out on holidays let them have your machine one week to see if that fits their needs. It's more fair than "convincing" them. Most of friends may think AmigaOS3.x+AmiKit/MorphOS/AROS/OS4 is cool but just for a short time... when they get used to the fast response they start to request their usual wintel apps.

You got me wrong there, I am glad if they come back using ANY flavor (MOS included, but I don't have one) and I suggest to them to try Icaros pointing them to its website.
My cousin is using it a little (he was with me at Pianeta and spoke with Paolone too), others are not interested but are now following the Amiga scene on italian sites (Amiganews in particular).

So PPC is not a dead end? Yeah sure.

No, actually it's not (see above).

It seems you don't understand that any program can overwrite the memory of each other. The API is flawed. It doesn't matter if you port MS Office using MS original sources, AmigaOS API will still be flawed. You can produce decent software for AmigaOS but that won't prevent that any app can overwrite your data.

I understand very well, the problem is, well written application don't do that, I invited you several times to go over at natami forums and talk about this with Gunnar.
Anyway talk with Vidarh about implementing MP without re-writing the whole OS, he will enlighten you.

Leaving apart that nonsense (in order to modernize AmigaOS core you would need to get rid of AmigaOS API and make an entire new OS that almost doesn't share a line of code)... there's little that indicates that Hyperion is up the task of designing a new modern API for AmigaOS. They seriously lack resources. The gfx system is primitive, audio is the same, WB is slightly updated but these changes are mostly cosmetical, there's still the old reaction... these things are points that Friedens want to update since the beginning but they lack the human resources to do it

replied above to the same, i won't repeat myself.

A Radeon9200 flies with q3 even if you use a 33Mhz pci slot. It shows that management doesn't know very well what they are doing (or amiga software quality standards are becoming very low).

Look, let's cut the cr*ap, I get much more than that on my system, don't doubt one bit it will play great on the X1000

Since most os4 users drag that non-existing boards to any conversation and dare to compare its fantasy performance to existing hardware I don't see why not talking about x1000 and discussing its availability and real performance too.

Maybe you don't seem to notice that OS4 users talk about that in friendship among them and they might mention the same products to you (or others) only AFTER you hijack the thread.
Try not doing it for a change, see what happens...

[DAX]

There has never been any problem at amiga.org. It's funny because when os4 fanatics find any objection to price/features/performance of OS4 software/hardware they get angry and start to claim the site has a problem.

Doesn't seem so to me, a lot of people have been complaining here...(not a problem? you say? well that shows the respect you have for the others).

It seems you just have joined amiga.org to practice some red trolling.

I just saw you (and a couple of MOS friends) hijacking an OS4 ONLY. The guy already opened a thread about MOS VS AmigaOS and all MOS people participated. Now he asked only about AmigaOS and you and a couple of friends hijacked the thread ignoring both the user and the moderator.
And i am the troll?

It's funny because most of Amiga users I know prefer MorphOS to OS4.

I only see like 6 mos supporters here (with you, Piru and TMHM being the most adamant of the bunch) this mostly a classic lovers site where NG flavors aren't as popular.
At AW.net every AOS thread receives massive participation while the others range from mild reaction to totally ignored. Incredible popularity I see....

A G2 cpu five years later than peg2/g4 is "modern"? yeah right.

I meant Windows7 or SnowLeopard geez...

MorphOS2.0 is more complete featurewise, faster and smoother. Any part of it. It's not just "one feature or two". From Ambient to preferences, from I/O support to bundled tools.

That's your opinion Crumb, what you call more advanced in most cases only looks different and derailed to me. I only like MOS 3D performance (very good)  otherwise it has nothing in particular. What it has its either different or the few things that are really good , will be in the next iteration of AmigaOS and then some.

Running in various hardware platforms and also on Apple hardware is an advantage. I bet you'll never ever use an AmigaOS4.x laptop. Well, AROS users can enjoy that right now. OS3.x users too through emulation. And MorphOS users are probably next.

I don't like laptop myself but you'll never know...

They remember Amiga and think about a computer with great price performance ratio that had killer apps and great games. They care (like most people do) about the software they run and its stability. They probably don't care about announcements of announcements, web mistery games, old ppc technology at premium prices and png icons. And you can bet they like to pay for the product they are going to use right now and they are not interested in buying overpriced obsolete hardware to fund future decent hardware

All in due time, nobody is asking them to fund anything. Right now we already know who are X1000 buyers, as for more mainstream amigans, we'll see when the OS will be mature and new more mainstream HW will be out (2 years from now probably).
Then you will se some ex Amigan interested, right now those are just a "potential" as i bet they would not be interested in either MOS/AROS or AmigaOS (as i said too early for main streamers).

Your vision of amiga market and community is seriously distorted.

What commercial partnerships? Do you honestly think OS4.x has anything commercially interesting? that's naive at best. Any company will prefer to invest on a Linux/BSD distro that can be tuned to do what OS4 does but better instead of being at mercy of a small company that lacks hardware to run on.

You seem to compare with mainstream market i was comparing to MOS. As a strter A-EON is putting a couple of millions on the table (Rogue confirmed X1000 order is in the thousands),  due to this they got Varisys interested and now they are getting press coverage (yes even the BBC asked for footage its on AW).
Good stuff.

What features are you talking about? There are limitations with AmigaOS API that can't be surpassed unless they get rid of compatibility with ALL previous versions and leave that stuff on a "compatibility box".

Again, speak with Vidarh.

It's easier that AROS surpasses both OS4 and MorphOS in the future since it runs on x86 (as well as other cpus), the development&user numbers increase... and given it's opensource nature it's possible to test what may never be done on OS4 (or MorphOS) due to lack of resources.

Well we both have a nice back plan then don't we?

[DAX]

due to the inability to produce any working 3d driver for anything faster than a Radeon9000PRO there's no much that invites us to believe that there will be great 3D support for more complex modern cards. Existing 3D drivers aren't exactly optimized so expect one half or one third of normal gfx card performance.

Due to no one working on it Crumb, things have changed and you fear this, which is a shame.

And I hope you can buy it. The hardware manofacturer seems serious but there's little time and I'm unsure about motherboard support. I guess we'll see a plain standard OS4.1.x version without 64bit&SMP support but I would be happy to be wrong.

That's better :lol:

As much as I like PPC, it's dead end for desktop. It forces us to use slower and more expensive cpus. My personal favourite when Peg2 was discontinued was MPC8641D or a tetra-g5 but oh well.

They never made a quad G5 (correct me if i'm wrong) but the PA6T is a better than G5 Cpu that has several cores implementation ready (more than 4), who knows if we will see them.

It seems you don't understand MorphOS Team is not a hardware company. They produce software. The problem for OS4 is that Hyperion Management decided to earn money with hardware and that affected their view, Ben Hermans thought he could get extra money killing Moana and now they are losing users who would never spend more than 500 Euros on a board.

I know they are not, but commodore was and Apple is, i like it that way.

AFAIK he has not created an AmigaOS compatible OS and it has been explained to him why his ideas wouldn't work. He can be a good programmer but intelligent people also makes mistakes and can take wrong choices.

he countered EVERY "explanation".

Nothing wrong with that. The problem is when some people try to convince others these problems don't exist.

And who was hiding the performance? Who mentioned them knowing theiy do not represent ANYTHING?

Well, It's normal to reply other users (like Varthal), since the topic is interesting and it's related to the original question (even if some people don't agree) I think it would be odd to stop the conversation suddenly.

You were asked to continue privetely as in PM or dedicated thread.

Eyetech also did. They had bad luck with "Escena" and later when the idea of a big motherboard/cpu accelerator that could be attached to an A1200 they used MAI motherboards instead of asking DCE to design and build it. They would have had problems with ArticiaS anyway so it doesn't matter much.

And so its the same now? :lol:

wrong. Your part of the development being "frozen" is highly innacurate. It was quite active with new components released *every* day.

no actually there were the times you describe (yeas when you beta tested) and times where I am 100% right.

AFAIK that's still true for most of them.
They always acted like they owned it, releasing it for uA1, Sam and Peg2 even thought they were not exactly allowed to do that... but their management never cared :-)

No crumb, one thing is to act and do a thing or two, one thing is to legally own something.

[DAX]

See my previous posts at the profile.

Must be late, i don't get what priìofile you are talking about and when did you purchase a legal copy of AmigaOS4.1, show me some proof...

In case you forgot it we were talking about the number of Sam boards produced on each batch. downloads are not good indicative: I downloaded timberwolf a pair of times, do I count as 2 timberwolf users?

No it is you who forgot: I said that Sams were primarly aimed at Amiga afficionado who wanted to get AmigaOS new HW instead of clunky a4000s and you replied that people still prefers to buy classics and they failed at that attempt.
I said to you that since they sell like 6 a4000 a year on ebay and Acube manage to sell lots of Sams (several hundreds) I believe they actually done good compared to a4000 and towerized 1200.

We were talking about Sam440 being worse than 5 year older hardware. Mac Minis and eMacs are quite cheap and MorphOS manages well gfx memory. Powermac will probably be supported in the next release. If next years I found that I need more gfx ram I could get a cheap powermac or powerbook.

No you said that the 460EX was not good compared to macMini/emac and i told you i prefer a modern GFX card on PCI-E instead.
Yeah keep on adding old macs, you might have to sleep outside sooner or later :lol:

MorphOS/AROS/OS4/OS3 don't have to go anywhere because they are hobby OSes that can't compete with mainstream OSes and AmigaOS API is obsolete.

really? we are in luck then it is not you running the show then :rolleyes:

In the future it will still be easy to find replacement machines to run MorphOS because there are hundreds of thousands out there. If you add powermacs it will be a never ending source of MorphOS hardware.

I expect to run MorphOS on a powerbook G4 in the future. Perhaps Ralph finds a QuadG5 in his attic and decides to add support for it, who knows.

Don't delude yourself on the G5 do i have to remind you Mark olsen interview:

[SIZE=+1]For now, the Mac  mini G4 is the  machine compatible MorphOS fastest but is not yet  supported 100%.[/SIZE]  [SIZE=+1]Do you plan to add Wi-Fi or  management  of the Airport for example, and also make a patch for the  keyboards that  are not recognized?[/SIZE]

 The  Airport is the name Apple gives to its wireless network cards. The  wireless network is a complex  subject, taking into account a lot of  work, and for now, nobody has  enough time to address the problem, and  therefore, support the access is  not to the agenda.

 Regarding  Apple keyboards do not work, especially the models A1242 and  1243, the  problem is related to the fact that they have an integrated  hub.   We plan to solve this problem on version 2.5 of MorphOS.

  [SIZE=+1]We have also seen a beta version  of MorphOS on  PowerBook and eMac recently.[/SIZE]  [SIZE=+1]Can you explain what is the hardest work  in these ports?[/SIZE]  

  Porting eMac version was directed by Frank Mariak, and from what I   understand, with the sources of the Mac mini, this port is not a lot of   work. I  think it is only the sound recording that does not work. The  support of  the eMac will be released with version 2.5 of MorphOS.

 With regard to notebooks, there is still much  work to do to make them  usable, this work includes support for graphics  chips that were usually  found in these machines (R300) bus support Apple  Desktop keyboards and  trackpads, Ethernet cards, sound processors,  trackpads USB, battery  management, management of the backlight, and  power management. And  probably other things that escape me at this  level.

[SIZE=+1]Some people like to run MorphOS on the   most powerful PowerPC Macintosh: PowerMac G5.[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]Are they dreaming or is this kind of  machine  that could run MorphOS in the future?[/SIZE]

  These machines are even  more problems. They use 64-bit processors,  which require modifications of Quark (the core of MorphOS) to work. On  top of that, they no  longer have much to do with the previous  generation of a material point  of view, and thus we fall again on the  eternal problem of pilots.  

Don't hold your breath

Don't worry, if x1000 sold hundreds of thousands they may port MorphOS to it.

That's more like it, I might actually buy it (I am not kidding).

BTW, MorphOS has the most efficient AmigaOS gfx system and 32/64MB are enough for it.

That's all it gets from now to eternity?

Don't you remember what you write? I said x1000 was delayed and that it wouldn't be for sale in summer and you replied that summer finished on september.

Just pointing it out, but i do know it will be Summer just for Beta testers.

I don't have time to search URLs sorry, you already waste quite a lot of my time.

I could say the same...

It's completely dead on desktop.
And do you think you'll buy desktop computers with Power7? hilarious. The only interest of ppc is that IBM builds custom cores for big customers like console
These are very primitive compared to modern desktop cpus. The PPCs of AMCC are designed for embedded market.
QadG5s released by Apple are still fastest desktop ppc computers. And when Apple dropped PPC, it died for desktop.

Actually the PA6T is a better than G5 design and there are several cores designs ready. as for Power7 it is for the future, Verisys might get them in due time.

I missed your invitations. All apps would fail with exception of simple command line ones like "ls" or "dir".

I already read Vidarh comments but it doesn't convince me. I already talked with Gunnar long in the past about his fantasy coldfires running existing 68k core (he always ommited that all code had to be rewritten). Both of these coders have been pointed by long time amiga coders that have designed entire OSes that their theories are flawed.

i understand that Amigacoders say a lot of things, but even every point by Umisef was countered by Vidarh so the debate is still open, talk with them i say, exchanging PMs or messages "they don't read" doesn't count as "they have been dismissed" .

[DAX]

@The_Leander
you are more reasonable than Crumb i actually agree with you on a lot of stuff.
Have to dismiss the points i don't however as we are having a double conversation (you replied to a reply I sent for Crumb and he did too, that's really to much ;P) here is very late and I am tired,
Good night

[DAX]

Ok Crumb, by this time i believe we both get we can argument (a lot :-)) but for how much I have all the time and replies of the world we should end this pis*ing contest.

I will speak honestly with you, I like MOS. End of story.

I wrote this in the this thread:

My suggestion (from the start, read my very first posts) is to get  along, avoid depicting other flavors in bad light since they can do the  same with you (as i did above on purpose) and even defend any Amiga  flavor from others attacking it from the outside.

Let's make this a friendly competition where we salute what the other  group is trying to accomplish. Aos is trying the old fashioned  computer+os package, it's early, let's see where they land,  MOS is  rejuvenating mac HW that goes slow with OSX but fly with MorphOS (and  can get back a lot of ex amigans gone mac), Aros is our Amiga flag when  it comes to battling it out in the world of open source OSs, and so on.

I repeat, those that thinking to have" this" or "that" advantage  believe it's the best way to show how their system is "za sh*it" will  only make it ugly, hurt their very own camp and the community.

I am ready to play it like this. Are you?       

To which i was also reminded that in the past it was ugly and that red trolls were all over the place.

To which I responded the following:

I understand that asking for this feud to end completely is unrealistic,  there will always be uncontrollable individuals, but the rest of us can  avoid jumping in enforcing this guys, how old are we anyway?

If in the future AOS gets a full Mesa port and new 3D drivers, i won't  come here saying "look MOSSERS, shove that 64MB vram c*ap up your a*se  now". I will just be happy and will also do anything in my power to shut  any red troll that would do something like that (I certainly hope there  won't be any, we are old for crying out loud).

The MOS community is a good one, and the Aos one is also a good one in  2010 no matter what happened back then.

We can at least improve things ten folds IMHO.       

i hope you will join. I know you say you just make comparisons, but remember that if a guy asks about the Amiga situation then you're entitled to talk about MOS to this guy, if he however already asked about it in another thread and begs just for AOS information, forcing the thread in certain directions is considered antagonistic and things will turn ugly, with endless discussions.

[DAX]

Well, I have looked at the profile of the starter of the thread. It seems he opened a thread about MorphOS in January and this thread has been opened at the middle of June. I guess that if I said I don't check old threads from 6 months ago and didn't remember he had asked any question about MorphOS some people won't believe me, but it's the truth.

I'm used to long threads with various replies so replying to Varthal was the most normal thing to do. BTW, in our amiga meetings there are a pair of friends who like OS4 and despiting what you may think I don't burn them in a pyre... I help them to solve their issues and talk about amiga stuff while we drink some beers/cider.

it is actually very possible, if "that old" I would have not recalled it myself (Karlos mentioned it so promptly showing he sure has a large memory :lol:).