Does eight bit computing excite you?

[Speelgoedmannetje]

ChuckT wrote:
I think that more people would be familiar with some of the older technology, that it would be easier to learn and programming could come back to some extent.  

Yes and no.

Considering assembly, simple tasks are much more of a hassle to program than 16 or 32 bits procs.
And more instructions means one can (almost) program in assembly as if it is a higher programming language (like C).
Which is more readable, and easier to be kept readable.

Cons are, that more complex instructions means that more actions are being done 'underwater'. You just need to learn these characteristics and then that system is 'yours'. :-)
Personally, I'd like to play/program with the Playstation 3 + Linux a bit, to see what those 7 cores are capable of :-D

[Speelgoedmannetje]

ChuckT wrote:
Is it worth writing programs for those machines if hardware manufacturers are going to do that?

NO!

But anyhow I want to try out that Cell processor.
I heard there was a new one upcoming, maybe there's a way getting it to work with in a pc as cpu or accelerator in some way.
I just don't want x86 (or those 64 bits derivatives)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

I'm sorry if I have to be a bit vague here (it's quite a couple of years ago), but I recall there was something about this cpu design that forces you to juggle alot with registers and memory allocation (when programming in assembly).

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It's not so much as suffer with asm code, but more of a difficulty for compilers. Compilers already make, so to say, sub-optimal binaries, and these flaws in CPU design really doesn't make things better. I think lots and lots of cpu cycles are being wasted.
Don't get me wrong, I really like backwards compatibility, but I rather see backwards compatibility as expansion rather than being used as a base.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

bloodline wrote:

Read: :-)
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/2q00/x86future/isa-future-1.html

As far as I can read from that article, they state that with the virtualisation of the x86 since the introduction of the Pentium Pro (a feature I thought only the Transmeta Crusoe could do; the only difference is the Crusoe is a titbit more flexible), Intel dealt with the hardware limitations of x86, but this article didn't wipe away my concerns about an obsolete instruction set crippling compilers.

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bloodline wrote:
I doubt a human could make code as efficient as a compiler on a modern CPU... Modern CPU's have hidden register renaming schemes, instruction scheduling, caching policies... the list is endless... I doubt you could know all the optimization rules now!

Ehm, I see it totally different.
Compilers have can compile anything, they're made to expect everything, so they have to exclude anything else, so to say.
Your code will always be completely different from compiler code because the compiler isn't and cannot be aware of what you want.
While you are!
Yes, the compiler can make things a hell of a lot faster according to mathematic rules and special instructions. But it can't make the code more straightforward.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

bloodline wrote:

Ok, there is the argument that the compiler does have to generalize... But after looking at the source code for Micropolis (the original SimCity), I have no idea how it could even be written in ASM! Working in a high level language gives you far more power over complex programming!
.

Oh man I know I know! But I've managed to make a pseudo object oriented library in ASM for the Atmel ATMEGA16.
It was the first thing I did when programming in ASM, and it was a titbit of a pain in the arse, really. But damn, when you get the hang of it, the complete power you've got over a system, I know it's wrong... but it feels so good...
;-)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

trekiej wrote:
@ ChuckT
look at www.parallax.com ,it has an 8 core MCU called the propeller.

Toys!
Damn, I want to play with that  stuff...

Got no money though  :cry:

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trekiej wrote:
8 bit is dead, long the 8 bit!
Uh,something like that.
 :-D

Something like 8 bit is dead, long live 8 core emulating 8 bit? ;-)

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8086 sucks. 80386 sucks. 68000 sucks less. z80 sucks even less.

6502/6510 rules.

Anyone with a differing opinion is an arsefez!

Eh? and there was me thinking the Z80 to be predecessor/branch of the x86

offtopic: WB Nicholas!