Should Muslims be forced to carry special ID?

[Speelgoedmannetje]

I don't think my grandparents would believe this.
I have no words for this.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

motorollin wrote:
Thank you KThunder for restoring some balance :-) But still scary views from those people shown.

The answer is simple. If you want to identify attackers without being discriminatory, then force everybody, Muslim or not, to carry ID.

--
moto

I don't want to carry an ID. Sue me.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

motorollin wrote:
The authorities already have the right to demand that you identify yourself. Having a standardised identity card won't change this.

--
moto

I know the ausweis is forced upon me. But I don't give a sh*t. I do not support stasi methods. I don't give a rat's a*se about people feeling 'unsafe'.
That whole particular law is unconstitutional.
I am guilty because of what I don't have in my pocket. How's that for human rights, eh?
Must I pay 2250 Euro because of some wussies think safety is sacred?
And oh we are so safe right now. I could get outside atm and stab lots of people randomly, nothing to stop me. Unsafe as hell, I'd say.
Yet it rarely happen.


Sorry for the rant, but this issue makes me really angry.
I really value our freedom, our basic western (currently western) values.
I even had a vicious dispute with my parents about this issue. (not anymore, thankfully)

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Cymric wrote:
In short: I side with moto. It doesn't solve anything; it makes the society only a little more safe, but there really is no harm in carrying it with you. Chances are you'll be happy to have it with you in case you do need it all of a sudden.

Hmyes, but the problem I have with it is that I am guilty when I do not, instead of only being guilty when I do (something bad that is).
So to say, it's kinda a reverse law enforcement; guilty until proven otherwise. You do not have a passport, ergo you are guilty.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Either way, I have no qualms with presenting a form of ID when asked politely by a law enforcement officer in circumstances which are indeed tense or unusual---uproar, demonstration, murder investigation in the house next to me, and so forth.

Ahyes, that petty excuse the minister used to get it through.
They use it atm mainly for getting more money from ppl who do not have light on their bicycles and things like that. I'm all for fining bicyclers without light, for making traffic really unsafe. But, a fine of 50 euros, plus a fine of 2250 euros, makes it just absurd.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Cymric wrote:
'Elke Nederlander wordt geacht de wet te kennen'. It's that simple, Speel. You don't agree with the law? Then don't vote for parties who instated it; or organise a powerful lobby to get it changed. Be happy that you at least have that right over here. Obviously, most people don't care enough to put in time and effort to do so, or are secretly in agreement with the politicians who spin tales about increased safety as it would probably mean less trouble from street thugs ('kutmarrokaantjes'). I can't be bothered myself, really. It's 25 grams of paper or plastic which I'll likely need for other purposes anyway. And I always lose the damned thing in mountains of papers on my desk, so it makes a twisted sort of sense to put the ID into the bag I always carry around.

@KThunder: over here a driver's license is not official ID. Your passport is.

Excuse me, Who said I voted CDA? And if you must be happy because you have some degree of democracy, you can enforce everything on us. That's a terribly lousy argument, which I am not used of you. And really, I expected also a counterargument of my previous post from you.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

KThunder wrote:
if you get in an accident on said bicycle and noone knows who you are, next of kin, medicinal allergies, etc. etc. it will make it tough to help you.
me, all they have to do is look in my wallet. this is driver#XXXXX we have his home phone adress etc.

Good point. Still, there's something like your own responsibility.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

KThunder wrote:
noone believes for a second that metalman is representative of americans right?

There are so much Dutch people I do not want to be representative for the Netherlands... :lol:
Yet they are there and numerous.
Still, not representative for the avarage Dutchman.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

KThunder wrote:
out of curiosity Speelgoedmannetje why wouldnt you want to carry id. i see no benefit to not having id and lots of drawbacks. people here in the states carry id for proof of license to drive, proof of age to buy alcohol and smokes, and for id in certain finacial transactions.

Ehm, I already stated a couple of arguments:

Cymric wrote:
In short: I side with moto. It doesn't solve anything; it makes the society only a little more safe, but there really is no harm in carrying it with you. Chances are you'll be happy to have it with you in case you do need it all of a sudden.

Hmyes, but the problem I have with it is that I am guilty when I do not, instead of only being guilty when I do (something bad that is).
So to say, it's kinda a reverse law enforcement; guilty until proven otherwise. You do not have a passport, ergo you are guilty.

Either way, I have no qualms with presenting a form of ID when asked politely by a law enforcement officer in circumstances which are indeed tense or unusual---uproar, demonstration, murder investigation in the house next to me, and so forth.

Ahyes, that petty excuse the minister used to get it through.
They use it atm mainly for getting more money from ppl who do not have light on their bicycles and things like that. I'm all for fining bicyclers without light, for making traffic really unsafe. But, a fine of 50 euros, plus a fine of 2250 euros, makes it just absurd.

Besides this, I am also against the fact that kids (14+) are obliged to carry it with them.
Well, I have lost my wallet countless of times when I was a kid. Mustn't think of an expensive id card being in it (also considering the fact it's a lot of fuss to register a lost ID card).