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Author Topic: The Gadget We Miss: The Video Toaster The gadget that revolutionized TV in the 1990s.  (Read 5672 times)

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Offline Heiroglyph

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Wow, this turned out to be a book.  Hopefully it even posts correctly.

A few years ago I asked Tim why there wasn't a PAL VT and he gave me a long story that I'll do my best to paraphrase.

The card shouldn't have worked in the first place.  It was designed based on observation of what the components actually did in the real world, not the published specs. I'm not sure I have permission to go into details, but if you look at the spec sheets for the components, the Toaster isn't possible and a simple overclock won't fix it.

Also, back then the tools to make gate arrays were absolutely terrible, nothing like what we have now and the gate arrays were one of the keys to the whole thing working at all.

There weren't affordable tools to simulate the timing with the precision needed to handle the video signals and there weren't high-level languages to program them with anything non-trivial.  Tim spent years hand tweaking every gate by hand to get the timing right and it was only right for NTSC.  PAL would effectively be a complete rewrite and he never wanted to go through that ordeal again.

Personally I also think that he had proven it was possible, so the drive needed to expend that much effort just wasn't there anymore. From what I've seen, he's not a money guy, he's genuinely motivated by challenges and curiosity.  Doing it again for PAL wouldn't be interesting at all.

As for "why Amiga?", other than everyone at NewTek being Amiga fanatics, it really was the only tool for the job. Years later, others were doing a subset of what the Toaster could do, but not the whole package in realtime and not with anything affordable. The Amiga chipset was incredibly flexible and more importantly, genlockable. The Toaster was designed around the Amiga to take advantage of it's strengths and even quirks. I was literally inseparable.

Truevision, etc had to essentially make their own "custom chipset" and add that to their cards too, driving up the R&D, testing and final shipping costs. The Amiga chipset was already stable, well documented and essentially free with the host computer. We could focus on what we did best.  Without the chipset pushing animation data to the Toaster, who knows when a comparable card would ever be available.

We stuck with Amigas for years for much the same reason.  The alternatives weren't up to the task. The other was that we not only loved the platform, but we already had a huge investment in software and hardware for it.

Somewhere just before the Flyer was about to ship, it was clear Commodore as we knew it was screwed.  We even tried buying Commodore ourselves, but they were still priced crazily out of our reach.

At that point we started testing alternative platforms and even designed a sort of Draco-esque Amiga subset computer with our own custom Amiga-like OS. They had real CIAs, but other than that, all in house and off the shelf parts.  If you've seen the tethered "PC Toaster" boxes with the video screen on the front panel that we showed at a few trade shows around 1995 or so, well, that's what's inside the box, a tiny passive backplane, a Flyer card in a Zorro slot and our own 68k(can't remember the model) computer on a card.  The problem was that it wasn't better than the 4000 versions, so we scrapped it. I think I have the only surviving systems in my office, one of which still works.

Parallel to that we were writing theoretical code, counting clocks and running the numbers based on Moore's Law to see when it would be possible to do it on software. The hardware side of that project went on to become FrameFactory in about 1998, a basic uncompressed IO board that could bring in some much needed income since Amigas were few and far between.

It took a few more years for PCs to become fast enough, but a couple of years after that you could see us doing demos of what would eventually become VTNT.  In the demos we were using dual 500MHz systems (the fastest we could get) and doing some pretty high latency examples of Toaster-like video.

It was almost 2002 before computer speed was adequate and the software was finally ready. When we released VT2, we finally a viable replacement.

Could we have designed a custom chip to do it earlier?  Maybe, but at some point you have to pick a path and follow it to the end.  Those years hurt, but the basics of the Frame Factory card and VT2 software carried on through the entire standard definition TriCaster line, which is an incredible lifespan by any measure and what we learned there is very much a part of what makes the current high-def TriCasterXD and 3Play lines possible.
 

Offline Heiroglyph

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Quote from: Sean Cunningham;770760
A lot of this I don't buy.  Someone who wasn't "a money guy" wouldn't have been so nouveau riche rap star "baller" about showing off Italian sports cars and jet planes.  They had enough money to hire engineers to do the conversion and, if necessary, re-brute force the development of a PAL compatible version.  They didn't.  The rest seems like excuses.  By his own description, his development process was more about being persistent than clever.  That's actually the sort of thing that's easier for someone else to replicate, quicker.


All I've got to go on is the word of the guy who did it and the guy who built most of the Flyer.  They have no reason to sugar coat it to a coworker and I believe them.

As for the money thing, who wouldn't buy some toys when you're a young guy with an overnight success beyond your wildest dreams?

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The only thing the "chipset" actually provided was the genlockable character generation and scrolling text.  It didn't do the DVE effects to the video itself.  Amiga titling was generally better than the options available from PC, Mac and IIGS solutions.  Of course that's not insignificant but even at double the price for a non-Amiga solution you'd still be looking at a significantly lower cost than just a professional, standalone character generator and those folks were used to paying more for their toys in any case.  


That's not actually correct.  Watch the control monitor of Toaster system when doing a transition.  The animated effects are done by the Amiga, you just can't see them well because they are encoded with extra data that doesn't look correct on that monitor, somewhat similar to a DCTV image.  It's a combination of overlay, matting and UV coordinate information that the Toaster card knows how to interpret. The gate arrays on the Toaster card then use that data to mix the video signals and potentially the decoded Amiga graphics.

Some slow control data (and grabbed images/CG sent to the Toaster) is sent through the parallel port on the video slot, but all the fast data is sent through the encoded digital video signal.

That's why the control screen "blanks" during certain operations.

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A Truevision AT/Vista board was $3795 and that was mostly a paintbox and simple display buffer solution without the ability to process live video or playback the kind of animation that you got with the Toaster4000.  It was a much better paintbox for sure than anything on the Amiga but that's just to illustrate the kind of pricing NewTek was competing with for much narrower focused devices.  Double their Amiga prices would have still been a bargain.  There wasn't anything "impossible" going on, as this was always religious hyperbole and folklore.  The real question in the context of non-Amiga solutions was whether or not it could be done at the same price as an Amiga solution.


There's impossible and there is impossible with certain constraints, such as price and more personal constraints as "is this better".

We had some workable compromises, but if Tim didn't like it, it wasn't going out the door. It sucks sometimes, but NewTek has that sort of mentality for better or for worse.  Personally I enjoy it. Most of the time ;)

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The info later in the post, talking about waiting for processors to get faster, etc. is obviously related more to being able to process the DVE effects on the host computer, take the video in, transform it, animate it, and then push it out.  The Amiga VT didn't do that, there was an onboard DVE processor that did this, crudely in the first version and with a bit more polish in the VT4000 (ie. antialiasing).  Having a software based DVE where the board itself is just handling the high speed video i/o from multiple sources is an entirely different beast than what the VT was and there's never been an Amiga that could have handled that sort of business with even standard definition video, I'm sorry.


I've already addressed part of this above.

The Amiga Toaster had chips that processed video, but the mix was driven by the Amiga.  The video didn't need to get to the host computer unless you grabbed a still, which is a very slow process on a Toaster.

Because the Amiga was naturally completely and reliably in sync with the video, this was an option.

When you try to do that in software, you have to get every frame all the way to the CPU and back to the card so a fast that a dumb card is potentially preferable.  It's definitely a whole different beast because we couldn't think about the process the same way anymore.  None of our old tricks were viable.

Going with smarter, more specialized hardware would also limit the lifespan and flexibility of the design.  Those cards only became outdated when HD video became the norm.

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The real story is they were loyal to the Amiga, beyond it's death until they had no alternative for continued survival.


No argument there.
 

Offline Heiroglyph

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Quote from: matthey;770779
I bet the efficient near real time multitasking of the AmigaOS had something to do with the "Only Amiga Makes It Possible". Wasn't the video output at normal speed in real time?


I wish I could say yes, but that was something that really upset Commodore.  We would often bypass the OS or prevent multitasking in order to get reliable throughput even on slower CPUs.

It was a win for users of 030's for example, but yeah, we weren't exactly system friendly.

We did love the way the OS worked though and when we moved on we modeled a lot of our internal code similarly.

Most people don't realize it, but the Flyer card is a self contained 68k computer that talks to the Amiga through the ZorroII bus. It runs its own Exec clone, much of which was also used in development of the small box I mentioned earlier. (yes, that little box has two independent 68k CPUs)  You can find a version of our Exec and references to the stand alone box software in the Flyer part of the OpenVT source distribution.

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One question for Heiroglyph though. Why didn't LightWave ever get recompiled for the 68040 and 68060 (specifically the FPU)? This would have doubled the speed over using OxyPatcher. For being "Amiga lovers", they seemed happy enough to let LightWave processing move to the PC from a very early time.


I honestly don't know.  The 3D and video teams are very separate and I'm on the video side.