TD64 or NSD for new storage drivers?

[Heiroglyph]

I've found a million posts on what the available options are and the drama that it caused, but nothing on what users actually want.

For a new storage device driver, which of the two give the best software compatibility and user experience?

TD64 is supported by Phase 5, DKB and GuruROMs, so being compatible to those is a pretty safe bet.

NSD is the OS3.5 and 3.9 standard.

So which one do you want?

Edit: I'm doing SCSI Direct regardless in addition to one of these.

[Heiroglyph]

You are writing ur own drivers?
Then just write your driver twice.  Once for NSD and once for TD64.  Then you have covered everything, right?

Use the source, Luke

Screw that, once plus scsi direct is plenty.  It's not my fault that AT had "not invented here" syndrome.

Yes, I'm the first vote for TD64

[Heiroglyph]

I don't think KS1.2 is an option with this hardware, 3.1 or higher would be pretty much expected.

[Heiroglyph]

This question is silly. The handling of both is equal, only the command codes are different. So it's next to no effort to support both.

I'm trying to get the developer CD that has the NSD docs on it now, I'm finding it hard to get information.

I thought that NSD had made it so that you couldn't support both.  That the codes conflicted or something.

[Heiroglyph]

@Heiroglyph

What is your driver called?  What hardware is it for?

It's called vaporware for now

Just a small project, nothing to get excited about.

[Heiroglyph]

You can get the Native Developer Kit from here:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http://www.haage-partner.de/download/AmigaOS/NDK39.lha&sa=U&ei=hckjUb3RAo-N0wXkooEg&ved=0CCAQFjAB&sig2=kIQt3qYsBWLJQm7Yz4PvBw&usg=AFQjCNHlNFpet5fVGKVAfek33SQ2_oFa0g

I appreciate the link, but I already had that one.

The developer CD supposedly has more documentation.  This doesn't mention NSD at all as far as I can see.

[Heiroglyph]

 This is another example of how developer hostile AmigaOS has become.

After finding examples of software that does use NSD, I see they all reference devices/newstyle.h which doesn't exist in the 3.9NDK.

Why is it all secret and paid for these days?  Assuming I can even buy a developer CD.  The RTG lockdown from a 3rd party developer is stupid enough, but a 10+ year old public interface in the OS itself?

I may end up doing TD64 just because I can do it without paying to ship a hard to find CD from Europe or becoming a pirate.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Heiroglyph]

Don't get all upset. There's no money here for the pirate police to make money off of. Maybe a few politically correct immature types will complain but it looks like this material is copyright but freely redistributable. Go figure why the documentation is not in the 3.9 NDK.

http://www.heywheel.com/matthey/Amiga/NSD.lha

Thanks.

It's just frustrating.  A platform this old should be well documented and wide open, but I've hit brick walls for the last few years every time I want to work on anything hardware related.

It's like a concerted effort to prevent new hardware from being practical.

If it was my first stumble it wouldn't mean a thing, but it's so far beyond that, that it's a sensitive subject now.

[Heiroglyph]

Just looking over the docs, I don't see what all the fuss was about and I don't see why a driver can't support both, which seemed to be implied in the arguments I've seen.

Like anything it could be improved, but it doesn't look like the end of the world that it was made out to be.

Yes, it sucks that people had to rewrite drivers after just having added support for TD64, but the standard itself isn't hideous.  I do agree that AI should have just gone with the defacto standard that was already available though.  That was a waste of everyone's time as far as I can see.

It looks like this poll is a moot point.

Thanks guys!

[Heiroglyph]

Now I know why I like free open source stuff

Points to consider:
 * Reliability - clearly defined API etc (trashed filesystem is bad)
 * Compatibility
 * Performance (CPU and kB/s)

Probably the documentation CD etc.. was created in a propietary setting. And when the financial trouble started there was the likely hood that a corporate buyout deal might happen etc. When things run out in the sand, everything got stuck in a big mess. Because I suspect that when Commodore  was working you would had the info with a bit of cash (+NDA?) without any problems.

This is why systems with documentation in your physical possession is such a good idea.

Amen brother.

[Heiroglyph]

Can you read that without finding him rare out of print books?

lol, I actually sent him a link to buy one.  He already had one in "OK" quality like the one I found.

[Heiroglyph]

I wonder if he's been asked?  I'd definitely pay for a couple of books to get the updated one.

Edit: I just asked him, we'll see.  I just hope he doesn't come unglued at the mention of the book.

[Heiroglyph]

He's not interested.

It's a shame.  He put a lot of work into something a lot of us want.

[Heiroglyph]

TD64 is probably the easiest to support from a coders point of view (i.e. a simple extension of TD32) but since NSD64 became the official OS 3.5/3.9 standard I think it should always be supported. There is simply no point in continuing the debate about which is better now.
 
Also, support for TD64 is optional since NSDpatch can patch TD64 to emulate NSD64.

I just want to learn the correct way to do it so that no patching is needed.

If I ever sell a product based on this stuff I'd like the user experience to be as hassle free as possible.

The problem was that the only information I could find were rants about how terrible the other option was, nothing technical and nothing about which was best for the user.

I can foresee a website in my future with all the information I've had trouble finding compiled in one place.

[Heiroglyph]

I am sure if you assembled the information that Thomas would happily host it on his awesome Amiga website.  He is really into HD filesystems, drivers, etc.

What site is that?  I'm not familiar with Thomas.