OS4 moves to x86. What happens next?

[Heiroglyph]

1: Time and money required to port the operating system. I have absolutely zero idea how long this would take, but I am assuming it'd be a pretty significant endeavour.

If they really did convert the OS to C as I've heard, it's not that big of a step.

I've helped completely rewrite a highly complex ~16 million line codebase with just a couple of other developers within a year.

If they can't handle porting a small (at least partially C) OS to a new CPU in that time frame or less, then they need new developers.

2: Time and money required to port applications.Without app's, an OS is worthless.

I don't think OS4's strength is in apps to begin with, the developer community is pretty small.

Most of the apps I've seen for OS4 are Linux ports anyway, so recompile, done.

3: Oh hey there AROS! What functionality does os4 give that AROS doesn't ?

Not so much a functionality, but rather validity.  They own the name AmigaOS.

4: Most overlooked:
Hardware support.
AROS has been around for years and still supports a fairly limited range of hardware.
When it comes to hardware there's two options: The linux way (support it all in the kernel, which requires massive amounts of work from a large number of people) or the windows way (have the hardware manufacturer write drivers for you).
OS4 would have neither.

Aros is a hobby project that had to start from scratch and reverse engineer.  Please don't confuse that with a company who had the source code.

In that light, Aros has moved much more quickly than the official OS.

Even supporting a small subset of x86 hardware, such as one or two chipsets, video cards, etc would still give users many times the hardware availability of custom PPC based solutions at a fraction of the cost.

5: User base.
Is there any actual user base in a world saturated with mature OS choices ? What do I get out of amiga os in the present day and age, that isn't already served by one of the big four (windows, linux, bsd or mac) in some flavour or form ?

Is that an argument against PPC as well?

I have a hard time seeing how x86 amiga os would attract new people rather than just shuffle existing users around.

With the current OS4 hardware requirements, how do you expect to grow the user base?

Nobody "just tries out" an OS that requires a hardware purchase equivalent to two Windows PC's or a Mac.

Pessimistic ? Maybe. But I think the choices that were made (powerPC) were good choices at the time. I think it's too late at this point to go back.

That shouldn't prevent us from going forward though.

In the scheme of things, PPC was just a speed bump.  Most users never saw, much less owned one so the loss in compatibility would be bearable.

[Heiroglyph]

Well said Leander.

IMHO, both of the PPC OS's are Phase5 compatibles anyway.  Commodore and the original Amiga engineers never mentioned PPC as a viable option far as I know.

An Amithlon clone that slowly merged with Aros would be the best way to go assuming you don't have the OS source code.

[Heiroglyph]

Leander is mostly right I think.

Just use/integrate UAE for classic support and...
As going/staying ppc requires very specific and expensive hardware, I don't see why x86 could not be supported in a similar way ?
I mean... just test/release for 1 to 2 mainboards and perhaps 1-2 cpu's.... write drivers for those, and specifically say other ones are not supported. I admit you would need to repeat this each years... but it seems doable to me.

just a thought
Tom UK

Specifying even one exact x86 hardware configuration is still easier for users than specifying four proprietary PPC configurations.

That's all Apple does with x86!

Plus, I guarantee finding a specific PC motherboard even five years after being discontinued is cheaper and easier than finding the custom PPC today.

[Heiroglyph]

I don't see the average x86 user wanting to pay for AmigaOS unless it's much superior to others.  What will AmigaOS get people on x86 that they cannot get for free with other OS?  So it's really "just" the current Amiga users that will find the easier route (x86) to using OS4?  Is that the main point here?

At the current state of any Amiga-alike, there is no reason to choose it over a "standard" OS.  It's stagnant and split too many directions.

But, if you are competing with only Amiga-alikes, then IMHO an x86 based OS could easily gain the majority of the users and help unify the community.

Honestly, even hard-core Amiga fanatics are balking at the price of entry on PPC solutions.

[Heiroglyph]

The mainboards would be outdated and unavailable before the OS is even released.

As opposed to single-source custom PPC boards that are both outdated and unavailable upon release?

[Heiroglyph]

If you are more pro-PPC, do you own a PPC Amiga-like system?

I think it would be interesting to know who is buying them and who is only pro-PPC in theory.

[Heiroglyph]

Hyperion make an OS and that's it. OS4 would be just a box on the shelf you install on some fugly PC.

Right now OS4 is just a box sitting on Hyperion's shelf due to the cost of hardware.

Nobody except maybe Mac die-hards want to pay a premium for a PC.  They are just a commodity these days like buying nails or gasoline.

Nobody cares who made it, they want a deal and they want it to work.

The only thing Hyperion have going for them is the software and yet they are limiting its use, which makes no sense to me.

If they were even targeting old Macs it wouldn't be so glaringly obvious, but they don't even do that.

[Heiroglyph]

What makes people think that on x86 they would suddenly be in competition with Microsoft and that if you can't get to 50% marketshare you stop?

Compared to the Amiga market, a tiny piece of the PC market would be like striking gold.

The only thing that would change is that the number of people who could try AOS would suddenly be in the millions.

If a minute fraction of them bought a copy, the sales and user base increase would be exponentially larger than on high priced, hard to find (for the average user) PPC systems.

You have to already love it in order to invest in PPC hardware, so the market is doomed to only shrink.

You really need the hobby users that follow Linux, FreeBSD, etc. and ex-Amiga users with fond memories in order to get anywhere at all.

[Heiroglyph]

If it was an x86, it would probably be $35-$150 for the motherboard itself.

You can get XCore development kits for $100.  Dev kits are normally much more costly than final product, but that's impossible to say for certain.  The chips are under $20 even in quantities of one.

Comparable CPU's are hard to find, but would probably be around $30.

My guess is $165 to $280 cost + the markup assuming you used mostly off the shelf parts.

[Heiroglyph]

So, for many of us here, the argument ain't "doing x86 is rad!" Instead, the argument is "doing PPC is suicide!"

Totally agreed.

I'm not against using available PPC hardware or PPC based OS's, but in another few years they will be just as outdated and hard to find as classic 68k based hardware is now.