Planning new A1200 purchase, need advice for NTSC connectivity.

[pkupcik]

Hi,
Back in the early 90s I used to own A500 with Commodore monitor. Now I'm thinking about purchasing A1200 to have a little flashback and have some fun with Amiga games. Naturally I need some help, advice regarding what I needed to buy. Here's my situation.

I live in the USA (NTSC) and intend to connect the A1200 to two of my TVs. TV1 is Pioneer Kuro Plasma and that one seem to be able to accept PAL and NTSC resolutions and 50/60hz refresh rates on composite, component, DVI and HDMI inputs. It also has VGA input, but that one needs 60hz or more. My second TV is a Panasonic Plasma and this one only accepts NTSC signal via S-video, component or HDMI; this should be my primary TV for the A1200, even though it has fewer connectivity options compared to the Pioneer.

Now the question is, how should I hook this up. I was going to buy a PAL A1200 from AmigaKit, should I instead by trying to locate used NTSC version of A1200? I think I've read somewhere that NTSC Amiga's have problems with some PAL games anyway? If I buy the PAL A1200, would something like Indivision AGA help? I'm intrigued by it's capability to support higher, progressive resolutions in workbench for the few times that I might use it. It does however only have VGA output, which only one of my TVs has and that requires 60hz, which I've read the Indivision has problem with as the games tend to get jumpy. So am I maybe better off buying some high quality s-video PAL to NTSC converter? I'm really lost somewhat by the various output types and frequencies on the Amiga. It seems that workbench uses one type of setup and games a different setup. Maybe I could attach some VGA to component or HDMI converter on top of the Indivision VGA connector.

My hopes are that I can get reasonably quality viewing experience with both games and workbench. What do I need to accomplish that on NTSC devices. I'm looking for off-the-shelf solutions, converters and hopefully not something where I have circuit boards hanging out the back of the Amiga.

I'm hoping that any video related expenses should not exceed $400 - Indivision, converters, cables, etc. Connecting to any other display device is currently not an option, it has to be one or both of the TVs I mentioned.

I would appreciate any advice you may offer.

Thank you,

Pavel

[pkupcik]

I would stick with an NTSC machine and use the PAL boot option (Hold both mouse buttons down).

Forgive my ignorance, but what would I gain by having NTSC A1200? I assume it would allow me to connect the composit video output to NTSC TV. Is there anything else I would gain to potentially get better S-video or VGA connectivity to NTSC screens? Are there any disadvantages of having NTSC Amiga. Will I be able to play PAL games? If I have to switch to PAL to play Pal games, what have I gained by buying NTSC Amiga. These are honest questions, I really don't know.

Thank you.

[pkupcik]

Thank you everyone. So it looks like the best option is PAL A1200. For now I should be able to connect it via composite output to my Pioneer TV as it  accepts PAL composite signal. Then in Q3 order Indivision AGA and start using VGA. I assume that the composite signal should be ok quality wise for the games, workbench will probably look horrible, but that's not the priority for now.

[pkupcik]

Wrong Post. Sorry.

[pkupcik]

failing that, there is this:

http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html

Combined with an adapter for amiga monitor port to vga (amigakit sells these I believe, and vesalia does as well), and a male to male vga cable, you are in business.

It has a bit of ghosting in workbench but works a charm for games and seems fine with deluxepaint though I didnt mess with it that much.

Thanks for the suggestion. What do you think about this device:
http://www.ambery.com/rgrgtotvcosc.html
It looks like it can convert the RGB signal to S-video, which may be easier to use on TVs that don't have VGA port.

[pkupcik]

Right OK isn't RGB SCART essentially the same as component video? ie 15khz not 32khz horizontal refresh? Whether your TV set supports 50hz over component is another matter but  suspect quality brands from major Japanese companies will do.

I suspect after a little googling that you can indeed use the RGB SCART signals in some form to connect via the component input of Plasma/LCD TVs. The circuitry will certainly be in the TV to accept said signal, it's just that USA doesn't use the actual SCART connector as a standard. All HD TVs have pretty much identical insides nowadays regardless of whether they're destined for shops in the UK/US/Japan. Would cost way to much to do bespoke PAL controller/input boards for LCD/Plasma HD sets sold here to add extra essential 50hz optional modes for our SD TV equipment to be connected, and many cable/satellite boxes still only use SCART RGB. In 60hz mode it will definitely work via the RGB-A output of the Amiga.

If I understand  you correctly, if make or buy an RGB to component cable adapter, I should be able to connect it to component inputs on my TV, as the signal is the same, just a different connector? I can confirm that my Pioneer TV does support both PAL and NTSC signals over component input.

[pkupcik]

I just looked at my Pioneer Plasma specs and the VGA input says that it accepts the following:

Resolution: 576i
Hf (kHz):15.6
Vf (Hz): 50

Resolution:480i
Hf (kHz):15.8
Vf (Hz): 60

Do you think that it may be able to accept the VGA amiga output? I saw the 15.8kHz Hf and thought that maybe that's the key. Not sure what impact does the resolution have.

[pkupcik]

Just to give everyone an update, I tried connecting my PAL A1200 to this device http://www.ambery.com/rgrgtotvcosc.html and it did not work at all, the signal was scrambled.

Then I tried this device http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html and the display is perfect. I simply bought the Amiga VGA connector, plugged it to the device and then plugged the device to my 4:3 LCD monitor and now I have great picture both in Workbench and Games. There is no ghosting, no weird over scan issues or anything else. The only limitation is that the device can only accept 15khz RGB signal, which means that you can only use the standard workbench resolutions, I'm using Pal High Res 640x256 and workbench looks great. The device automatically converts from PAL to NTSC.

The next thing I'm also going to try is SCART PAL RGB to HDMI NTSC converter that I ordered, but is on back-order now. That would allow me to have easier hookup to modern TVs and Hi-Fi Receivers.

[pkupcik]

It's my opinion that you should just get a NTSC unit if you can.  For one, it will be compatible with all American TVs/LCDs and such and will boot to NTSC by default, saving you the hassles to having to switch to NTSC to boot the damn thing.  Also a lot of games will boot and run on a NTSC system, even PAL games!  Yes sometimes you lose about an inch of display at the bottom but it does boot and even runs faster!  Most PAL games infact use a NTSC screen anyway and don't take advantage of the higher resolution leaving a gap at the bottom!  (Chaos Engine AGA)  But of course there are a few PAL games that *REQUIRE* you boot to a PAL Mode to even run or display correctly.  For those you simply have to use a PAL display.  But like I said, unlike what others will have you believe, that is the exception not the rule!

It seems that some people say get NTSC there will be only very few problems and some say get PAL to avoid plenty of NTSC problems.  The decision was rather easy as only PAL Amiga is being sold as new - whether that was the best decision I don't know. The converter I bought is very convenient though, small, not too expensive and high quality output, I also plan using it for my 8bit ZX Spectrum 128k computer.

I did just now try to play Lotus 2 in NTSC mode (switched during Amiga boot) and it played correctly and more importantly it covered the full monitor screen and not just the top 4/5 of the screen. It did seem to play somewhat faster, I guess that's because of the 50 vs 60hz refresh rate.

Is there a way to enable NTSC mode by default on the PAL A1200?

[pkupcik]

Thanks for the reply Omnicron10. I just found out that I can force each WHDLoad game into PAL or NTSC by using the TOOLTYPE option. I think this will be a sufficient solution for games, for workbench there are plenty of PAL/NTSC modes. Thank you.