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Author Topic: Amiga guilt and time distortion.  (Read 23936 times)

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Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« on: April 14, 2011, 10:50:15 PM »
Quote from: minator;631654
Windows 95 Solid ???

Have you ever used it?  Solid is not the first word that comes to mind.

I remember it well.  It was incredibly slow, took gobs of RAM and flakey as hell.  From a reliability point of view my Amiga was a lot better.

Windows 98 was better and was functionally a lot better than the Amiga but it was still slow.

Then I got BeOS and all was right with the world.  It was fast, and it could multitask properly without sizing up or crashing.  Just like the Amiga.


OS/2 is related to Amiga OS.

Win95 was good enough to stop 99% of companies ditching PC and cheaper than OS/2.

I had the unreleased beta which was OK on 8mb PC, as ever it's usually memory for Winblowz being slow.
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 11:56:14 PM »
Before cheap Pentium (ie 94) AGA vs ISA VGA = no real difference. 680x0 CPU price vs 486DX/Pentium/AMD586 was a problem for price/performance by 94.

OS wise Win 3.1 was pretty bad, until Win95 all that editing conig.sys file and 640kb memory barrier = utter bollox for PC gamig. Win95 multitasking was WORSE than KS/WB 1.3 whatever CPU you bought. Oh and massive memory leak requiring reboot 2 or more times if you go on intetnet/use GDI memory* my Amiga 2000 with Supradrive ran for WEEKS, something you need 2000/XP to manage on PC

Also add the fact you needed a 486DX50/DX266 to play Lotus 3 as fast as CD32/1200 (1500+VAT in 93 with CD+Gravis) and Pentium 100-120 for Super Stardust PC at same speed as AGA (aain 1500ish in late 94) I think there is some clueless posting at best. More to PC gaming than Wing Commander (shit) and Doom (perfect for PC like Beast is perfect for A1000/2000/500 and impossible on PC in 91)

AGA inside CD32/A1200s only problem was C= needed to update it in 2-3 years AND solve 680x0 CPU price performance. Unlike 1986 A500/1000 in 1991/2 wiping the floor with £800 386DX25 multimedia PC playing Lotus II(Amiga OCS) vs Lotus III(PC) oh and don't forget 2 hours with QEMM386 (£99) to get the DOS games to work. Also a not having a SIMM slot and hence a cheap 512kb SIMM option to double 1200/CD32 speed was a classic Commodore oversight. Hell make it 1.5mb Chip/512kb Fast on motherboard deign. grrrrr don't remember Apple/Wintel crippled to 50% CPU speed in the box from day of sale *sigh*

256 VGA colours was a bit of an issue pre A4000/1200 release sure.

*I know this as a fully ITIL qualified service manager from 96-99. Win95 was terrible for business users, Win98 SE bare minimum acceptable.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 12:20:55 AM by Digiman »
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 12:19:04 AM »
Quote from: commodorejohn;631675

Yes, it's true that for horsepower x86 kicks any other desktop architecture's ass these days, but that wasn't nearly so true back in the early '90s


The point PC was viable future winner for UK computer gamers was mass adoption by software houses of VGA graphics as standard. Why?

386 VGA/SBLASTER owner buys SF2....pretty slow and unplayable. 18 months later sells it and gets 486DX66 +GRAVIS etc....suddenly old unplayable game is arcade quality. Had 256 colours but is faster and sounds better automatically.

A500 owner buyss SF2...32 colour slow rubbish....3 years later he gets a 4000/030 and loads SF2....STILL rubbish (same speed, 32 colours, SFX/music). Has to pray a good AGA version is released and buy a 2nd copy if it is ever made! No reward for his £999 investment!

And that my friends is the problem, in 1990 most arcade games on PC had 256 colour graphics like Super Nintendo and their old PC games bought before upgrading to better PC automatically improved without the need for a single line of game code to improve. VGA mass adoption was the key. EGA Cinemaware games will forever be inferior to Amiga versions even on an running on Intel i7 920 PC today. After VGA though it was game over. 256 colours was enough even for 3D games like Doom or Screamer Rally  comparedto PS1 RidgeRacer/Doom.

Big problem for AGA AND Atari Falcon potential purchasers no?
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2011, 08:04:25 PM »
One thing I do know is most of the disastrous machine projects and design decisions that happened are because the founder of Commodore, Jack, had to  leave.

Some examples...

1. Commodore 16 was meant to have been a project to produce a MRP $70-80 VIC-20 replacement.

2.There is no way Jack would have not screamed about the A1000 unlike Commodore whilst the delayed 500/2000 machines crept into 1987.

3. He would have shifted a lot more C64s @ <$199 in 84.

And before you unknowledgeable ones say "Atari" remember

1. Cost all his personal wealth to get it.
2. No MOS factory
3. VIC-II/SID quality best designers didn't move to Atari.
4. Atari R&D projects had nothing worth a crap.
5. No stake in arcade side.

Real shame.
2.
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2011, 12:05:56 PM »
Quote from: drHirudo;632049
You are a perfect example for what he is pointing at. I had PC in the early 1990. My PC was Turbo and it had a Turbo button for a reason. Most of the old games were unplayable on faster machines, because they were tied to the slow processors. The sync with the videobeam was non existant on early PC games. I still have a magazine with source code for slowdowner that runs resident in DOS. A PC lamer told me in 1994 that the new games were undependable of CPU speed. So you can even run games on 4 MHz I asked him? He proudly answered yes.....
But the speed was not the only problem that sucked for the reasonable PC gaming, except for turn based strategies like Civilisation that was hit on the PC, while most Amiga gamers thought it sucked as a game. For every game before you start it you had to choose - type of Video controller (Hercules, CGA, EGA, VGA, SVGA), Type of Sound card (AdLib, SoundBlaster, SoundBlasterPro), Turbo or Normal version, JoyStick (what joystick, most of the games did not support joystick), Mouse. Shit, you had to run mouse driver before starting the game. Some games did not allow save of config, that was helping the PC gamers become DOS experts, because it was more interesting to type stupid scripts in DOS than to play actual games. Starting games from Windows was nightmare too, and even after Windows 95 appeared that put end of the configuration hell, people were still loving DOS because it was better for gaming.
The consoles were selling pretty well back in 1994-1995 for a reason - the Amiga and the Atari were no more, the PC sucked as a gaming machine and the PS1 was getting all the nicest games, that took the PC 3 years (late 1997) to catch up with the quality of the graphics and sound.


I beg to differ,

PC comments-
whilst I started with a 486SX friends had 386SX and 386DX machines. The only times PC games were affected by CPU speed making them unplayable was running C64 quality simple EGA games from mid80s intended for 8086 CPU.

These were excluded from my comments for a good reason. ALL VGA arcade games were playable on even early Pentiums, many scrolling games sold in 386/486 era around 91/92 would not be as smooth as an Amiga 1200 or even 500.

So playing 8086 CGA/EGA 80s games on Pentium MMX is irrelevant to the discussion as weare talking Wing Commander VGA and onwards. Before this you wouldn't consider an EGA or 286 12mhz PC in the UK for gaming.

Console comments=
More Atari 2600 VCS consoles were sold than all Atari AND C= 8 bit home computers combined.
NES outsold Amiga + Atari ST combined
Megadrive outsold Amiga + Atari ST combined

Of those 3 examples only Sega Megadrive was superior in some ways to competition on it's launch day. VCS inferior to Atari 400, NES inferior to A500 but 300% lower cost was the advantage. Console sales and home use computer sales are not connected.If you need ed a computer there was no advantage in getting a Playstation. PS1 was a revolution and Sony's marketing combined to quadruple console market size. Had nothing to do with specs of Amigas and PCs available or whether those machines could even run Ridge Racer on launch day.



Ultimately I have given the generally accepted reasons most people in the industry see why, and when the breakpoint was, for when Wintel would secure a future no matter what C= or Atari did. A machine which has no custom chips can run games better/smoother. You will either agree or not but taken in context it is fact. As is whatever you think of Win95 for 95% of the world it was good enough for Wintel to make serious inroads in the UK into the home computer market.

PC SF2 bit choppy and sounding scratchy? Get a faster CPU and Gravis wavetable card. WTF choices did we have if an arcade conversion was botched? None! If SF2 PC was not produced in VGA but EGA however PC users would be stuck same as Amga users......get it? This is why Outrun PC is a waste of time and before the cut-off point. Needing touse moslow on a 200mhz PC to make a 1984 CGA version of Zaxxon playable is not related to the topic

CGA era = C64 versions of games better and EGA era = Amiga versions of games better....this is all about 1991/92 introduction of AGA fighting off rise of the home Wintel PC sales. AGA was fine for a couple of years but as Dave Haynie pointed out Commodore's AAA/Hombre was financial and technical suicide compared to off the shelf PC sound/Video/3D cards anyway.
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2011, 09:37:25 PM »
Quote from: runequester;632191
The shamefull truth is.. I use GEOS :(


I couldn't afford an ST so I started writing my own GUI in a compiled BASIC and got as far as the Mac/GEM style windows and pull down menus :roflmao:
 

Offline Digiman

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Re: Amiga guilt and time distortion.
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 09:25:12 PM »
Quote from: runequester;632203
In BASIC? Thats pretty rad :)


Well anything is possible as a kid with a compiled super hot BASIC no?