Amiga 1300[What ifs]

[Digiman]

Some called it the A1400 some the A1800 but Lew's 'no comment' in Xmas 93/Jan 84 was an admission. Keep googling

Timescale was ready before Xmas 94

Status was motherboard prototype completed, case specifications complete, case design incomplete.

Tech specs = A1200/CD32 features/expansion ie AGA/CD32 chipset plus.....
68EC020 @ 28mhz (same speed in reality to 25mhz 030)
2mb chip + either 2mb 32bit fast RAM on motherboard
AKIKO on motherboard
HD Floppy disk drive
No Zorro slots
Processor trap door compatible expansion
PCMCIA unconfirmed
Dual IDE for accommodating HDD and CD-ROM inside case.

Form factor = 3 box design using case of A3000 dimensions + A4000 keyboard.

Price point=£499 with 3.5" HDD £599 with HDD & CD

Reason = A4000/030 & 040 too expensive for people not using Zorro, A1200/CD32 too slow stock speed &2.5" HDD too expensive, no mid range competitive with 386/486 machines.

Reported by Amiga Shopper/Format and CU Amiga. C= UK spouted 'no comment'

Remember PCs were around £999 for good soundcard + CD in early 93 and 33mhz 486 same in early 94 and both still ISA based so AGA is superior on some levels. Amiga fans were crying out for such a machine as were software houses. Could have given them the £££s to finish AA/AGA+ too. Shame, sounds like C= UK finally 'got it'. Management buyout would have pushed ahead with this too.

edit:didn't see Amigkit post.

[Digiman]

93' or 94' this could perhaps have worked. Later than that -your up against PS1 and Saturn at the low end, and Pentium at the high end. But with the A500+ quickly replaced by the A600, people had already had their fingers burnt. Imagine then getting the A1200 and having it phased out a year later!

A lot of these specs are what the A1200 should have had. I think Commodore had missed the boat once they'd buggered up AGA.

First 4mb Pentium 60 multimedia machines mid 93 onwards cost anywhere from $2500-4000 depending on brand. Same value with £ sign for UK. Even in mid 1994 Pentium 75mhz were about £1500 in the UK.

People forget the costs, 4mb alone was about £125 even in 94. £500 Amiga 1400 would have undercut branded 386DX40 multimedia machines and played better games.

PS1 and Saturn are red herrings, if you needed a computer you still needed a computer so they make no difference. You opposition was Falcon, Archimedes, Falcon, Mac LC 3/4 and ISA 386DX/486SX PC. And remember in Europe PCs and Macs were very expensive. USA RRP in $ = same in £ too.

And Windows 95 still a year away, Win 95+USB 2 years.

Would have sold very nicely for Sept-Xmas 94 IMO

[Digiman]

David Pleasance of C= UK knew this would work. Had management buyout happened quickly this would have been a priority.

A real alternative to budget PCs of the time, and in 1994 Windows 3.1 was pathetic looking to all shoppers. Home users never used more than graphics/sound/cdrom ISA cards anyway so 4000/030 Zorro slots were overkill.

One of my pet projects is to one day build one inc special case...I have an A3000ish looking design sorted already

[Digiman]

I guess maybe this was just a local thing but I dont know many, if any people who sat and compared specs and bought their computer based purely on that.
 
People bought an amiga because they wanted an amiga and the software eco system that went with that. Same for people who bought a PC or a Mac.
 
Buying a 2000 dollar PC is no dice if you want to run an amiga application, and no amount of 68060 will help you run a PC or Mac application (well, actually.. it might for mac )

Hmmm in the UK at the time of 4000/040 and 1200 launches home user PC sales were more hype than substance.

The new buyers looked at demos running and picked a format in their budget ie 386/Mac LC III, Falcon, Acorn or Amiga. 4000=too much,1200=old style toy computer look and 'slow' 14mhz with expensive HDD/no HD FLOPPY/Little RAM

A1200 and Atari Falcon looked cheaper than 3 box design of Mac/PC but options cost 200-300% more. CPU/RAM upgrades not sold in regular High St stores here either.

Nobody cared about crappy DOS/WIN at that time in the UK, and PC home users were viewed as fools though. Funny thing is things were back to the early 80s of UK home computing where only the creative/educational/gaming potential mattered for new comers NOT the brand of the CPU or OS. Amiga had everything it needed AND CHEAPER than SEGA/Nintendo cartridges or Mac/PC creative/small business software.

Of course owners would become viciously loyal fans of their Alt. format choice.....hey it worked for Mac sales in mid 90s :roflmao:

http://support.apple.com/kb/SP209

That is what Commodore needed to copy, the ethos of the Mac LC3 030/25 in pizza box case with no excessive expansions, the 4000/030 couldnt compete with 040 based LC475 by 94! madness was rife @ Medhi Ali central...is he dead yet?

[Digiman]

I think the Canadian mail order house advertised an A2200, with an expanded CD32 motherboard.

*Googled*

In Mar 1992 via Usenet.....


A  "killer  no-nonsense"  midrange  Amiga system is finally here.  The Amiga  2200 is actually more like a "slightly scaled down Amiga 3000." Housed  in  a box which is actually smaller than the A3000's case is a mother  board  which  holds  a 68020 CPU clocked at 14.3MHz.  There is also  a  socket  for  an  optional 68881 FPU.  This is a "real 32 bit" system  running  on  a 32 bit memory bus.  The Amiga 2200 includes the ECS  to support 2MB of Chip RAM.  Up to 8MB of additional Fast RAM may be  added  to the mother board using 4Mbit RAM chips (or 2MB RAM using 1Mbit  RAM chips).  Stock systems will ship with 1MB Chip and 1MB Fast (system) RAM.  A de-interlacer circuit is included on board as well as a  32  bit  SCSI hard drive interface similar to the A3000.  There are three  expansion  slots  including two full 32 bit bus expansion slots "ala  A3000  style"  on  a  verticle  daughter  board and a direct CPU expansion  connector  which can take a 68030 or 68040 CPU accelerator. The  Amiga  2200's low-profile, compact case has room for two internal 3.5"  drives.  

Stock  systems  will ship with either one 1.76MB High-Density  floppy  drive  and a 52MB Quantum hard drive or two HD floppy drives.   I/O  ports  include  standard  serial,  parallel, dual mouse ports,   dual   audio,   SCSI,  floppy  drive  port,  NTSC  video  and de-interlaced  31KHz  video.  The Amiga 2200 with hard drive is priced substantially  less  then the A3000/16/50 which is being phased out of production.   The  Amiga  3000/25 will continue as the high end of the Amiga personal computer line.

Notes:

This system is for the true  Amiga enthusiast.  Due to the very "cost reduced" mother  board and  system enclosure it is NOT BridgeBoard  capable.  It also has  "only" two main expansion slots.  However, with SCSI and up to 10MB RAM on board (2MB Chip, 8MB Fast) you  may not  need an expansion slot for a while.  With a  14.3MHz 68020 running on a true 32 bit memory bus, you've  got enough  processing power to handle almost any task.   When you are ready to expand, go ahead and fill one of the two 32 bit  expansion slots with
a 32MB memory board.  And  add a  28MHz  68040 to  the CPU expansion slot.  You'll  be  in  "Amiga Heaven"  with this kind of power.  This system enclosure only holds two 3.5" drives. This is the most useful low-cost configuration and
is due to  the  low-cost, small  footprint inclosure.  But you can still add floppy and hard drives externally to the built-in floppy and SCSI ports if necassary. The 68881 FPU is not included in stock  systems, but at least the socket is there when you decide to  plug one in.  The  A2200 will significantly out-perform the  Mac Classic II and Mac IILC because these Macs use a  16 bit memory interface to their 32 bit processors.  At list  $1295  with  one high-density floppy drive, a 50MB hard drive and 2MB RAM (1MB  Chip and 1MB Fast) this system will sell like  hot cakes.  At  $995 street price  this is a  low-cost-Mac and clone killer for sure. In fact, a new factory may be needed to keep up with demand. The A2000 will remain in  production for those who
need a system where they can plug in the "kitchen sink."



If 92 then fine, if 94 then suicide $1300 for 14mhz & 2mb RAM.

[Digiman]

Well, part of the CD32 problem was that they couldn't make enough of them to meet the sales demand, and weren't allowed to sell in the US.

This is as far as Dave Haynie's deathbed vigil video goes anyways. I figure he knows what he was talking about

CD32 game sales trounced all CD sales at the time, PC CDROM was expensive at first.

AGA was OK for 92/93 but Commodores problem was they could never make anything as advanced for the time as A1000 to milk it for profit like they did with OCS. PCI graphics on Pentium + better CPU price/performance destroyed A4000. The A1400 with 28mhz 020 + CD for £500 would have cleaned up in 94 but could only be a stopgap for AA+ or Hombre development funds. Couple of bullets for Medhi Ali too :roflmao:

[Digiman]

It was the a3000+ & a3000aa that were originally going to be released instead of the a4000.
 
http://www.amiga-hardware.com/showhardware.cgi?HARDID=23
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/prototypes/a3000plus.html
 
While cancelling slowed down production, it would probably still have come out sometime in 1992.
 
The major problem was that commodore was all about doing things on the cheap, they always milked their designs. But in the 90's there was more money around and people were prepared to pay alot more for quality. ECS & AGA were both too late to the party.
 
To succeed commodore would have had to produce a better chipset than AGA earlier than they produced AGA.
 
AA+ in 1990/91 or hombre in 1992 might have stopped the high end leaving for the PC. Hombre in 1993 might have stopped the low end going to the playstation.

By 1994 commodore couldn't even afford to make CD32's.

Biggest problem was cost of 680x0 processors vs 486 etc. Not much they could do on their buying quota. The Apple LC475 etc made 4000/030 look expensive too let alone 4000/040.

Damage was done in 86 when they sacked half the Amiga team, look what rubbish 'improvements' West Chester and GMBH teams made.....as effective as Plus/4 and C128 custom chips.

[Digiman]

Right OK after raiding a pile of magazines....

A1300 = Amiga Technologies
A1400/A1400CD = Commodore.

By 95/96 Escom era the A1300 would have failed. 030 is no improvement to gaming over 020 so overpriced compared to 125mhz 486 £499 PC bundles.

AT never came up with a good idea, Walker=dated and the green A4000T case design proposal made me throw up a little. Add £399 A1200 14mhz relaunch and no wonder they sank fast.

[Digiman]

THere's a lot of amiga guilt going on here.
 
On one hand, we know Commodore had difficulty meeting demand for 1200's and CD32's (from various people over the years, who were involved, Dave Haynie for one).
 
On the other hand, we have plenty of people saying that despite this, nobody would have wanted to buy a beefier 1200 or whatever, because there were PC's in existence.
 
Hm

Price is the issue. A4000/030 a turkey and A1200 too slow for 3D games. Something inbetween using cheaper 3.5 IDE would have sold, especially CD32 compatible A1400CD in 93/94. 1995/96 ESCOM era then expensive 040 vs cheap 486 Pentium 75mhz = dead end.